Determining regulations of Constitutional Convention. (FINAL VOTE)

[Senator Cris]

I would like to see a list of reasons why the Senate should be completely excluded from the selection of any delegates, beyond just vague criticisms about it being the worst ever.

Me too.

[Simfan34]

Keine wahlen!

[Prince of Salem]

I understand Evergreen's position, but we're including the Senate in the selection of delegates in order to ensure representation to sectors that may not be elected, but whose input will be very important.

[Leinad]

I understand Evergreen's position, but we're including the Senate in the selection of delegates in order to ensure representation to sectors that may not be elected, but whose input will be very important.

This is basically my position exactly.

I think that we need to ensure that no one slips through the cracks, and if we only have one form of selection (e.g. only appointment or only voting) this has a higher chance of happening than if we have a variety of methods.

The key is balance--ideological balance, regional balance, and method-of-selection balance. Since the number of active people who would want to do this probably isn't much greater than 25, it shouldn't be too hard to find people.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I understand Evergreen's position, but we're including the Senate in the selection of delegates in order to ensure representation to sectors that may not be elected, but whose input will be very important.

This is basically my position exactly.

I think that we need to ensure that no one slips through the cracks, and if we only have one form of selection (e.g. only appointment or only voting) this has a higher chance of happening than if we have a variety of methods.

The key is balance--ideological balance, regional balance, and method-of-selection balance. Since the number of active people who would want to do this probably isn't much greater than 25, it shouldn't be too hard to find people.

     I would suggest that the Senate is a different subculture from the rest of Atlasia, and it should have its interests represented in the convention for that very reason. This is a very important step, and we should try to represent as many different interests as possible.

[ilikeverin]

I would like to see a list of reasons why the Senate should be completely excluded from the selection of any delegates, beyond just vague criticisms about it being the worst ever.

The selection of delegates to the Constitutional Convention has always been the unique provenance of the people, as reflected through region-based elections.  The idea that delegates should be selected based on the whims of the elites is a new development.

[Leinad]

I would like to see a list of reasons why the Senate should be completely excluded from the selection of any delegates, beyond just vague criticisms about it being the worst ever.

The selection of delegates to the Constitutional Convention has always been the unique provenance of the people, as reflected through region-based elections.  The idea that delegates should be selected based on the whims of the elites is a new development.

Who ever said whims? One could just as easily discredit popular vote by saying "whims of the people."

The "elites" consist of some of the most active Atlasians, who best understand the issues and know who will do best in the ConCon. Having delegates selected by popular vote is obviously a good idea too, and I'd be against any plan that didn't have that (earlier in this thread I defended the concept of electing delegates when Simfan said it would take too long) but I think Senatorial appointments are important, too, and it's unfair to characterize it as "whims of the elites."

Now, if they go and make stupid picks, I'll be harmonizing with you on the "whim" chorus; but that seems like a rash assessment as of now.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I motion for a final vote on this bill.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Exclusion of the Senators from participating in the convention is a horrible idea for two major reasons: first, we are currently the only active federal institution that works regularly, despite all the problems. Thus, we can bring both experience and activity. We already have a legitimacy, being vested by the people of Atlasia with their trust as they elected us to this body.

Second, an idea of excluding anybody from having a say in the process, in this case Senators, is plain wrong.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I motion for a final vote on this bill.

And I second your motion.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I would like to see a list of reasons why the Senate should be completely excluded from the selection of any delegates, beyond just vague criticisms about it being the worst ever.

The selection of delegates to the Constitutional Convention has always been the unique provenance of the people, as reflected through region-based elections.  The idea that delegates should be selected based on the whims of the elites is a new development.

Who ever said whims? One could just as easily discredit popular vote by saying "whims of the people."

The "elites" consist of some of the most active Atlasians, who best understand the issues and know who will do best in the ConCon. Having delegates selected by popular vote is obviously a good idea too, and I'd be against any plan that didn't have that (earlier in this thread I defended the concept of electing delegates when Simfan said it would take too long) but I think Senatorial appointments are important, too, and it's unfair to characterize it as "whims of the elites."

Now, if they go and make stupid picks, I'll be harmonizing with you on the "whim" chorus; but that seems like a rash assessment as of now.

     I agree with this, for reasons I explained above. A vision of Atlasia that excludes the opinions of Senators will be one that is unrepresentative of a large segment of its current userbase and alienate many long-time players.

[Prince of Salem]

People from the left wing will get a better chance of participating of the ConCon with this system, if we compare with full popular vote.

[Simfan34]

This has already lasted three weeks. We are setting ourselves up to fail.

[Senator Cris]

I motion for a final vote on this bill.

And I second your motion.

Thirded.
If there will not be objections, I'll open a final vote when the 24 hours period expires.

[Senator Cris]

A final vote is now open.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

AYE!

Let's get this show on the road.

[Prince of Salem]

AYE!

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Aye

[Senator Cris]

Aye

[Classic Conservative]

It's Happening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!¡!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Viva la Atlasia! Viva la Constitution!

[Leinad]

This has already lasted three weeks. We are setting ourselves up to fail.

Holy crap, you're putting speed as the end-all-be-all; can't we try to get this right?!?

This is the same nonsensical attitude that led to the Mock Parliament having the lamest name ever. South America? A 5-year-old could think that up, but at least they would be smart enough to realize it sounds stupid. Not to mention the fact that no other ideas for a location were even allowed to be considered, because they had already made up their mind on that idea. Taking time to make sure we get it right? Not in our "Parliment!"

Rushing through things like you would have us do causes nothing but crappy results, which makes NOTHING better. If we have a ConCon in world record time, it will be utter garbage and do nothing to improve Atlasia.

We're setting ourselves up to fail if we rush through it, and we're also setting ourselves up to fail if we respond to everything that doesn't go our way with this kind of pessimism.

We're getting a Constitutional Convention, people. Be glad about that. Be optimistic that it will go well. Or at least naysay a little quieter.

(Sorry if that sounded a bit crabby. I just think that both the attitude of pessimism and the attitude of rushing through everything need to be nipped in the bud or this Convention will be less productive than the last one.)

[rpryor03]

AYE! AYE! AYE!

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

A resounding AYE!

[Senator Cris]

This bill has enough votes to pass.
Senators have 24 hours to change/add their votes.

[Lumine]

Aye, for the love of god, let's do this now!