MS Megathread: Hyde-Smith wins by 8

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

It's quite disturbing that a sitting Senator is confused about how to vote and has to be coached by staff.

Going to shock you on this one, but most senators, regardless of age and party, are coached how to vote by their staff

Yeah, even many of the good ones.  There’s not enough time to read everything.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Brandon Presley won't be a candidate for U.S. Senate in 2018.


Also, is there any way to rename this thread something like:  "MS 2018 Megathread?"  Most of the discussion here has strayed from the original topic (a possible Cochran resignation) and we could even combine the thread on Harper's retirement with this one.

Against Wicker, he never said he wouldn’t run in a special.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

A funny thought: perhaps enough Democrats might cross over to vote for McDaniel in order to have a weaker Republican in November.  This would be a counterpoint to the 2014 election, when he claimed that Democrats crossing over were the cause of his primary defeat.  (http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2014/aug/20/mississippi-primaries-open-or-not/)

An aside, but doing this to either party is really, really awful for civic health.

I hope people learn from Clinton's mistake and stop assuming they can just beat the worst of the other party.

This

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This has to be a prank

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If Pressley doesn't run, I think Espy would be solid against McDaniel, he's giving me Doug Jones vibes.

*clapping* Doug Jones didn't win, Roy Moore lost

And Ralph Northam didn't win, Ed Gillespie lost. And tomorrow it won't be Conor Lamb who would have wom but Rick Saccone who would have lost.
Democrats never win, it's the Republicans who lose.

You're delusional if you don't believe Roy Moore was the reason that seat was lost. It was 100% him. Literally ANY other Republican would have won easily.

But the point is that Roy Moore would have won against a weaker candidate than Doug Jones.

Well yeah. I definitely agree with that.

So it's ridiculous to say that Jones's victory had nothing to do with Jones. Or that a candidate being similar to Doug Jones wouldn't be good news for that person's chances.

Jones was a great candidate. That doesn’t change the fact that a normal Republican (Luther Strange) would have beat him.

I think the argument is that Espy would be a good candidate in case the Republicans nominate another Roy Moore type. It's like, we probably can't bake a cake but we at least might have one ingredient.

Espy’s not even an average candidate tbh.  O/c it’s a moot point since we’d really need Hood (not running) or Presley.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Espy is a C-list candidate at best (really D-list because he's such a nasty and notoriously corrupt individual).  The only way this could be competitive is McDaniel vs. Presley.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Espy is a C-list candidate at best (really D-list because he's such a nasty and notoriously corrupt individual).  The only way this could be competitive is McDaniel vs. Presley.

Espy was exonerated of all wrongdoing in the corruption charges against him.

No, they couldn’t prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was guilty.  There’s a big difference.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Taggart seems like a solid FF as far as MS GOP's go but this won't play well with MS Republicans. I wonder if he'd endorse Presley in a Presley vs McDaniel race. 

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Feel like I'm missing something but wouldn't Shelton entering just reduce the chance of getting a Democrat into the run off (unless he forced Epsy out the race)?

The real story here is that it basically confirms Presley isn’t running.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This race is not close. Only white liberal elites in bubbles could possibly think Mississippi whites will be swayed from their hyper tribal political behavior because of some racist remarks. 90% of whites in Mississippi will be saying worse at Thanksgiving dinner.

The only reason Roy Moore lost was because he was credibly accused of raping/molesting/pursuing teenage white girls. You take that out and leave his abhorrent anti-LGBT and anti-black comments he wins by double digits.

What is elitist about hoping people will rise above their worst impulses even when you know it’s ultimately unlikely?  I think you’re mistaking optimism, hopefulness, and idealism for elitism.  I mean, I hope you’d agree there’s nothing elitist about hoping a racist loses a Senate race.  And even if that was elitist, wouldn’t African-American elites living in the same bubble logically be expected to share the same view?  Why would someone’s skin color effect whether they thought Espy could win (btw, it sounded like you were using “white” in a pejorative way which...well...I’m pretty sure many folks here would consider it racist if someone started complaining about “black liberal elites”)?  

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This race is not close. Only white liberal elites in bubbles could possibly think Mississippi whites will be swayed from their hyper tribal political behavior because of some racist remarks. 90% of whites in Mississippi will be saying worse at Thanksgiving dinner.

The only reason Roy Moore lost was because he was credibly accused of raping/molesting/pursuing teenage white girls. You take that out and leave his abhorrent anti-LGBT and anti-black comments he wins by double digits.

What is elitist about hoping people will rise above their worst impulses even when you know it’s ultimately unlikely?  I think you’re mistaking optimism, hopefulness, and idealism for elitism.  I mean, I hope you’d agree there’s nothing elitist about hoping a racist loses a Senate race.  And even if that was elitist, wouldn’t African-American elites living in the same bubble logically be expected to share the same view?  Why would someone’s skin color effect whether they thought Espy could win (btw, it sounded like you were using “white” in a pejorative way which...well...I’m pretty sure many folks here would consider it racist if someone started complaining about “black liberal elites”)? 

I don’t have contempt for whites. It’s a fact that many white liberals are completely ignorant to how rampant racism and hatred is outside of their liberal bastions. I’m not mistaking anything—- I am in several organizations where I’ve had push back on tackling certain issues because the alleged white progressives I was dealing with didn’t think it was a problem. That’s not optimism that’s ignorance and elitism. I’ve seen tweets and think pieces handwringing about Cindy’s behavior like it’s actually going to matter. White southerners are hyper partisan out of hatred and contempt for black folks. It is ridiculous to think that the state that still has the Confederate emblem in their flag and where the people who killed Emmit Till, Medgar Evers, Cheney, Goodman, and Schwerner are secretly celebrated around white dinner tables are going to vote against the crypt keeper because of her comments. If anything it’s making her more popular.

Fair enough, thank you for clarifying what you meant.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This race is not close. Only white liberal elites in bubbles could possibly think Mississippi whites will be swayed from their hyper tribal political behavior because of some racist remarks. 90% of whites in Mississippi will be saying worse at Thanksgiving dinner.

The only reason Roy Moore lost was because he was credibly accused of raping/molesting/pursuing teenage white girls. You take that out and leave his abhorrent anti-LGBT and anti-black comments he wins by double digits.

What is elitist about hoping people will rise above their worst impulses even when you know it’s ultimately unlikely?  I think you’re mistaking optimism, hopefulness, and idealism for elitism.  I mean, I hope you’d agree there’s nothing elitist about hoping a racist loses a Senate race.  And even if that was elitist, wouldn’t African-American elites living in the same bubble logically be expected to share the same view?  Why would someone’s skin color effect whether they thought Espy could win (btw, it sounded like you were using “white” in a pejorative way which...well...I’m pretty sure many folks here would consider it racist if someone started complaining about “black liberal elites”)?  

I don’t have contempt for whites. It’s a fact that many white liberals are completely ignorant to how rampant racism and hatred is outside of their liberal bastions. I’m not mistaking anything—- I am in several organizations where I’ve had push back on tackling certain issues because the alleged white progressives I was dealing with didn’t think it was a problem. That’s not optimism that’s ignorance and elitism. I’ve seen tweets and think pieces handwringing about Cindy’s behavior like it’s actually going to matter. White southerners are hyper partisan out of hatred and contempt for black folks. It is ridiculous to think that the state that still has the Confederate emblem in their flag and where the people who killed Emmit Till, Medgar Evers, Cheney, Goodman, and Schwerner are secretly celebrated around white dinner tables are going to vote against the crypt keeper because of her comments. If anything it’s making her more popular.

Great post!

It is amazing the amount of pushback you get from ostensibly left leaning people on here (and elsewhere) when you acknowledge the elephant in the room that is racism which drives the voting decisions and political affiliation of millions of Americans. They remind me of the Republicans that said racism was no longer an issue because Obama won, lol. The bubble is very thick.

The fact that people are actually entertaining the idea of a black guy winning in Mississippi because the Republican made racially tinged remarks is amusing to me. Then again this is Atlas which always overrates Democrats' chances and never seems to learn no matter how many times they're wrong, so I guess it's not surprising.

The difference is that you practically revel in the fact that many people hold racist views; I'm not saying this is how you really feel (judging by your reaction to Jones winning, I suspect you'd be happy if somehow you were proven wrong and Espy won), but there are multiple times where you come across as though you'd be genuinely disappointed if Espy won because it wouldn't fit your narrative.  You can make the same point you've been making without being so self-satisfied about it (no offense).  Being right about the fact that people's worst impulses carried the day is not cause for celebration; it's something we should be sad about.  I mean, don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to admit I can be needlessly smug on Atlas at times, but it's (hopefully) not the definitive feature of my forum identity   If anything, the tone of your posts often obscures the substance and makes them easier to dismiss even when you are right which is a shame because you're clearly a really insightful poster.  Does that make sense?

FTR, I say all this as someone who thinks Espy doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning (my guess is he loses by 56-44% at best, probably more like 58-42%), but I also want to be wrong.  That's not because I'm sticking my head in the sand about racism, it's because I think people are capable of rising above their worst impulses from time to time.  Maybe it won't happen this time (pretty sure it won't tbh), but hope springs eternal.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Who are the 6% who voted for McDaniel and are now supporting Espy?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Weren't you pretending to be a Democrat before the election?

??

It's possible I may have you confused with another poster.

No, you aren't mixing him up. A few weeks before the election he switched from "I'm a progressive and I want Republicans to win to push the Dem party to the left" to just cheering on Republicans.

Fake News.

Anyway, anyone else gonna watch the results come in live tomorrow night? MS usually reports the D areas in first right?

Excuse me while I whip this out:

Stop trying to make "#walkaway" happen people, please.

The #walkaway phenomenon is a real thing. Keep in mind that it's more of a slow but steady trickle over a span of many years, not a sudden jump since 2016. I started losing faith in the Democratic Party around 2012, but not as much for the American Left. Certain shifts in the American Left that started in 2014 was what killed it all, though I definitely wasn't going to embrace the Republicans at that time either, but I did consider myself libertarian-ish. Trump in 2016 and the left's behavior since then was what really put the nail in the coffin, but I'm not quite ready to be a full fledged Republican unless they stop being the party of Reagan (the mythologized version), George W. Bush, Rick Santorum, etc.

If you take a look at the #walkaway facebook group, you'll see varying stories from all sorts of people. Those people aren't necessarily going to vote for the Republicans on November 6, but they won't give the Democrats votes either. Arguably, you won't need them if turnout for the Democrats remains high and turnout for the Republicans has been mediocre as it has been for these past few special elections. That doesn't mean that people aren't abandoning the Democratic Party and the left, it just means that a greater portion of the people who vote in these elections are energized progressives and Democrats, while an even larger number of people who *might* have voted for the Republican stayed home for varying reasons. Sometimes the reason is as sad as simply not knowing that there was an election that day.

Anyway, I don't see what's so bad about critiquing one's parents and highlighting their conduct as indicative of the country's current polarized and vicious nature,  if they went so out of their way to slight your political career.