Temporary Headquarters of the Labor Party (Leadership election)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I literally successfully invaded the most rightwing region in the game at this time (Mideast), transforming it into a safe Labor region.

Lock him up!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

@Adam
You were the one who was trying to convince me that the game has changed because of competition from handheld gaming and the fact that it now competes with Atlasia. Deregistration was not legal for a long time and even after it was, it used far more rarely than now. Haven't you considered the possibility that, understanding your point about mutual support and the like, that in effect people don't want to be marshaled like SS jackboots in a game that is meant to be fun and is based on voluntary participation anymore. I honestly don't think people have the stomach for the days of 2013, which you so glowingly recall, much less the chaos of fall 2009. As you so often seek to remind me, it is 2017.


Yes it can go too far, but the remember this Adam. You conveniently forget that Labor uber alles wrecked the Party as well. When they they insisted on making a well established to be unfit partisan hack as "Speaker/Administrator" of the Senate. This crippled a Labor administration in its infancy and helped turn what should have been one of the best Presidents Labor ever elected (DemPGH) into a disaster. But that didn't matter, as long as the guy with the job, had an L after there name, it didn't matter.

And you mention "accepting that you are not 100% of the puzzle", that didn't happen either. It is like the promised thing you get sold from a charlatan, but he never delivers and yet you are expected to deliver without fail in the name of the party. People with differing opinions were expected to shut up and sit down,  and better qualified candidates from within the party had to pass it on. And they all had to line up every two months and cast a vote to wreck the Senate.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

@Windjammer
Keep in mind Windjammer, that economic centrism in the Federalist Party is nothing new. I have been been to the left of most of the Feds on many economic issues for a long time. That is because I am dirt poor and know what it is like to struggle. For a long while I foolishly snowed myself that the economic philosophy of RL movement conservatives (when combined with a few unorthodox positions like banking regulations, higher wage/EITC) would make it work.

I was wrong though. My positions have not changed much, but my RL approach and rhetoric has considerably. I supported co-ops for a long time, I still do. My philosophy on the economy is to break up concentrations of wealth, and free up competition to thrive both from for-profit and non-profit (depending on the industry) to ensure that people have a choice and are not slaves to a Wall Street fat, just as much as they are not slaves of a Nyman, DC bureaucrat.

Dfw didn't not deliver a message any different than mine in June 2014 when I won a 78% approval vote (odd voting system) endorsement from Labor for Senate, lauding my support for co-ops, a healthcare public option, and the Nixcome (minimum income). His mix of issues was slightly different (more focus on infrastructure for instance), but the overall theme was the same. Dfw simply was more audacious and more effective at communicating those views to voters who shared his goals, regardless of their affiliations.

The simple fact is that Labor has not led on issues in many areas, especially in the House. OneJ to his credit made some significant contributions, but by his own admission he was not an economic policy guy. I introduced glass-steagall and it sat for days until finally I had to arm twist Laborites just to comment on it. That is not to say Laborites aren't doing anything, and there are some leading figures in the Senate where things are different.

I support Glass-Steagall because I don't believe Conservative means being a shill for big banks and continuing irresponsible practices, I believe it means "preserving" Main Street from the wrecking ball of irresponsible behavior, just as much as it means lowering taxes for small business. A progressive can support it because they are a progressive. There several RL Republicans who shockingly have endorsed it.

It is nice for Adam to say vote for Labor, because Labor. But at the end of the day, that is pretty hollowing reasoning to ask someone to vote out a functioning House majority, with a functioning administration, that is delivering Glass Steagal despite its "Fed+Con Majority". If anything Progressives are better off now then under Labor control, because we can actually pass there bills, whereas under Labor control the place ground to a halt.

There is one thing that Adam left out of his lists "Do this or GTFO". An expectation or desire for competence and that is not surprising. Adam doesn't care about policy and the only consequences he cares about is the rest of the party shunning the deviant in the next election. The problem is that if you constantly elect people, speakers/PPTs, in name of Labor Uber alles, and then they disappear or take a two week siesta (while posting 91 times on the forum during that period), leading to nothing getting passed and leading to "threats of secession" and calls for "massive reforms", because the "system failed", why should you expect even Progressives to vote for you, when the end result is stagnation. And don't get me wrong, I like Never and I respect his effort he put into fixing the House rules at the tail end of his term. Hopefully he will change his mind and his third time around will go better.

Seriously though, ask anyone of the recent Laborites who defected to us whether they think the answer is more heavy handedness and more incompetence glossed over in the name of party unity, and I think that you will get the same answer by and large. If Labor thinks more of the same is the answer to there problems, then Labor can only expect more of the same at election time.

And Windjammer, I should have just made this post sooner and saved you the trouble of PMing them all. You got better things to focus on.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

In the Words of Ronald Reagan
Mr Senator North Carolina Yankee, PPT
There you go Again

Sure thing Adam "I want to turn the Middle East into a Sheet of Glass" Griffin!


Wasn't going to do this, but since you brought out the heavy artillery, why not.  

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

@Windjammer
Keep in mind Windjammer, that economic centrism in the Federalist Party is nothing new. I have been been to the left of most of the Feds on many economic issues for a long time. That is because I am dirt poor and know what it is like to struggle. For a long while I foolishly snowed myself that the economic philosophy of RL movement conservatives (when combined with a few unorthodox positions like banking regulations, higher wage/EITC) would make it work.

I was wrong though. My positions have not changed much, but my RL approach and rhetoric has considerably. I supported co-ops for a long time, I still do. My philosophy on the economy is to break up concentrations of wealth, and free up competition to thrive both from for-profit and non-profit (depending on the industry) to ensure that people have a choice and are not slaves to a Wall Street fat, just as much as they are not slaves of a Nyman, DC bureaucrat.

Dfw didn't not deliver a message any different than mine in June 2014 when I won a 78% approval vote (odd voting system) endorsement from Labor for Senate, lauding my support for co-ops, a healthcare public option, and the Nixcome (minimum income). His mix of issues was slightly different (more focus on infrastructure for instance), but the overall theme was the same. Dfw simply was more audacious and more effective at communicating those views to voters who shared his goals, regardless of their affiliations.

The simple fact is that Labor has not led on issues in many areas, especially in the House. OneJ to his credit made some significant contributions, but by his own admission he was not an economic policy guy. I introduced glass-steagall and it sat for days until finally I had to arm twist Laborites just to comment on it. That is not to say Laborites aren't doing anything, and there are some leading figures in the Senate where things are different.

I support Glass-Steagall because I don't believe Conservative means being a shill for big banks and continuing irresponsible practices, I believe it means "preserving" Main Street from the wrecking ball of irresponsible behavior, just as much as it means lowering taxes for small business. A progressive can support it because they are a progressive. There several RL Republicans who shockingly have endorsed it.

It is nice for Adam to say vote for Labor, because Labor. But at the end of the day, that is pretty hollowing reasoning to ask someone to vote out a functioning House majority, with a functioning administration, that is delivering Glass Steagal despite its "Fed+Con Majority". If anything Progressives are better off now then under Labor control, because we can actually pass there bills, whereas under Labor control the place ground to a halt.

There is one thing that Adam left out of his lists "Do this or GTFO". An expectation or desire for competence and that is not surprising. Adam doesn't care about policy and the only consequences he cares about is the rest of the party shunning the deviant in the next election. The problem is that if you constantly elect people, speakers/PPTs, in name of Labor Uber alles, and then they disappear or take a two week siesta (while posting 91 times on the forum during that period), leading to nothing getting passed and leading to "threats of secession" and calls for "massive reforms", because the "system failed", why should you expect even Progressives to vote for you, when the end result is stagnation. And don't get me wrong, I like Never and I respect his effort he put into fixing the House rules at the tail end of his term. Hopefully he will change his mind and his third time around will go better.

Seriously though, ask anyone of the recent Laborites who defected to us whether they think the answer is more heavy handedness and more incompetence glossed over in the name of party unity, and I think that you will get the same answer by and large. If Labor thinks more of the same is the answer to there problems, then Labor can only expect more of the same at election time.

And Windjammer, I should have just made this post sooner and saved you the trouble of PMing them all. You got better things to focus on.

I don't really know about the current actvity of Labor members as I just woke up not a long time ago. But seriously, is your point "the federalists are more active than the laborites" lol?

Do you remember that your presidential candidate, after having forced to resign in disagrace in the Mideast for gross inactivity, became Secretary of State and was forced to resign during the presidential because the senators were going to impeach him because he didn"t do anything for at least a month?

Regarding your other points, well fine maybe the feds have some members who aren't rightwing as their republican counterparts. But are you seriousy going to say that Sanders progressives should feel welcome in the Fed party lol?

No Jambles, that is not my point. Nobody cares whose candidate did what in Feb 2015. They do care that your February 2017 candidate for President allowed Congress to become so completely dysfunctional that people were threatening me with secession when I was President because "nothing was getting done". And that Progressives have no desire to risk putting that dysfunction back in charge when the present House passed Glass-Steagall with just 1 nay vote, two infrastructure bills, and many other things. My point is before you start thinking about restoring the glory days of Old Labor thuggery, that you consider what you are trying to force people to vote for and demand at least some level of competence and activity.

some members huh? You make it sound like Dfw and I are some random back benchers or something. You aren't accounting for JoMCar, Goldwater, fhtagn, PiT, Leinad, until last night Ted (RIP ), Pericles, sbane, Miles, Sanchez, vosem and many others who disagree with some substantial portions of the RL GOP dogma and platform. A substantial number, including most of its most prominent officials, is "some members" .

If they want to end the war on drugs and get addicts treatment instead of jail time, if they want to avoid unnecessary foreign wars, if they want see infrastructure get done, if they want to see tougher banking laws passed, if they want to see healthcare get done and done right (Kudos to Scott by the way, for being a Laborite who cares about issues), if they want to protect small business from Wall Street and gov't excess, if they want to break up monopolistic entities to restore choice to the people, if they want a party that believes in equality and most importantly, "A More Welcoming Atlasia", then yes I think they fit in quite nicely.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

People don't vote based on ideological veneers, they vote based on individual issues that form that sum total of those ideologies and who is best to deliver for them at any given time.


Also, I have long since established that 1) Politics is not linear, it is 3-Dimensional and 2) I don't give a damn about lazy political analysis and its poorly conceived "rules" for who must side with who. People are people, not herds of sheep.


You don't see me demanding the 11 Feds back who made you Vice President, Windjammer.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

People don't vote based on ideological veneers, they vote based on individual issues that form that sum total of those ideologies and who is best to deliver for them at any given time.


Also, I have long since established that 1) Politics is not linear, it is 3-Dimensional and 2) I don't give a damn about lazy political analysis and its poorly conceived "rules" for who must side with who. People are people, not herds of sheep.


You don't see me demanding the 11 Feds back who made you Vice President, Windjammer.

These 11 Feds backed me because they were ideologically closer to me than the guy who legalized polygamy and incest. Not because I made some "Nice guys FF" campaign

Or they did so because Hagrid and Tmth asked them to, or at the very least encourged them to do so. So maybe, it was "nice guys ff" after all. We'll never know, will we?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

(48 hours have passed)

I congratulate Windjammer on his election as Labor Chair, and encourage him to dissolve the labor party.

Knowing Windjammer, he is probably more likely to dissolve you for annoying him than anything else.

He has the power you know. I think he picked it up with a magic amulet somewhere in France, a truly magical place.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

How would the party feel about expanding the Congressional caucus so that senators have a role in it as well?  The left has had a de facto majority in the Senate for some time now and I'm running for PPT in the next session.  I think it would be appropriate for us to elect party leadership for Senate the same way we do for House.

I would note that as of this time we have yet to successfully give any purpose to said positions. The Caucus positions were the ones I cooked up February, Peebs copied them and has done a better job keeping them filled, but beyond that have served little to no purpose, though both Labor and Feds have integrated them into the bylaws.

Also, if you are going to go with Caucuses for the Senate, I would advise they be separate from the House one because the nature of the House and Senate are different both in who they represent and the organizational premise.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

How would the party feel about expanding the Congressional caucus so that senators have a role in it as well?  The left has had a de facto majority in the Senate for some time now and I'm running for PPT in the next session.  I think it would be appropriate for us to elect party leadership for Senate the same way we do for House.

Honestly,
You all do whatever you want, this kind of things is so irrelevant anyway.

For some reason, I picture an abusive, alcoholic father saying that to his son after he came home from school and wanted to show off his art class project.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

How would the party feel about expanding the Congressional caucus so that senators have a role in it as well?  The left has had a de facto majority in the Senate for some time now and I'm running for PPT in the next session.  I think it would be appropriate for us to elect party leadership for Senate the same way we do for House.

Honestly,
You all do whatever you want, this kind of things is so irrelevant anyway.

For some reason, I picture an abusive, alcoholic father saying that to his son after he came home from school and wanted to show off his art class project.

I don't even drink alcohol at all .

Maybe, but I would note I have been in this game twice as long and am nowhere near as grumpy as you have become in your old age, Jambles.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Chief Justice and Party Chairman Windjammer for having the faith and trust in me to appoint me to the Atlasia House of Representatives. For those who do not know me, I am a patent lawyer with an engineering background, and I have dabbled in local electoral politics. Since my registration, I have been a citizen that was proud to take part in the Atlasian democratic experiment as a voter. Now, I am excited to take this big step up into the House of Representatives, where I can bring an outsider's prospective and an innovative approach to promote the vitality of the Constitution of Atlasia and the fundamental values it expresses: individual rights and liberties, genuine equality, access to justice, democracy, and the rule of law.

I would also like to take this opportunity to assure our party members that while I have not always voted 100% along the party line, I am committed to advocating for the progressive principals our Labor Party has fought for since its founding. I look forward to speaking with my fellow legislators, other government and public servants, and the common man about how we can improve the standard of living for every citizen in our great land.

This fellow Illinoisan and Congressman welcomes you to the Atlasian House of Representatives.

Half of the Labor Caucus is from Illinois. Deeply Disturbing!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

How would the party feel about expanding the Congressional caucus so that senators have a role in it as well?  The left has had a de facto majority in the Senate for some time now and I'm running for PPT in the next session.  I think it would be appropriate for us to elect party leadership for Senate the same way we do for House.

Senators already have the right to vote in elections for Caucus Leader, but if y'all want to have separate leader for the Senatorial and House caucuses, I'd be fine with that.

I would note that as of this time we have yet to successfully give any purpose to said positions. The Caucus positions were the ones I cooked up February, Peebs copied them and has done a better job keeping them filled, but beyond that have served little to no purpose, though both Labor and Feds have integrated them into the bylaws.

Yeah, this has been a persistent problem. When I proposed the position of Congressional Leader back in October, I envisioned it as a kind of join floor leader and party whip who would keep our representatives active and engaged in Congressional proceedings. I don't think it's ever been used as such, which is a shame, because Congress would certainly benefit from a greater degree of organization. As it is, we have a system where the Speaker of the House is effectively both majority leader and minority leader, which is not a very reasonable request to make of one person.

I got some ideas I would like to discuss with you on that matter, but not in this venue obviously, and when I am not pressed up against the clock.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yo mamma so fat, she converted to Labor!

Stop insulting Maxwell!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Here's the situation, folks: we need nine active representatives for the people in Congress, and we need them now. The search for a candidate to fill this vacancy has already taken far too long. To allow this seat to remain vacant for days and possibly weeks on end while the National Committee pursues a permanent replacement would be an abdication of responsibility and a disservice to the Atlasian people. It is for this reason — and this reason alone — that I have consented to assume this seat as an interim measure only. I have no wish to remain in Congress; if I did, I had ample opportunity to run for (and win) this seat in August. Instead, I will serve only until a permanent replacement will be found, whereupon I will immediately resign to allow their nomination.

As for the constitutionality of this appointment: Article VIII states very explicitly that no person may be elected to more than one office, while at the same time giving sanction to the appointment of elected officials to second and third offices. It is this provision that allowed Peebs to assume leadership of the Census Bureau while still a member of the Chamber of Delegates, and that has allowed myself to serve both as Attorney General and as prime minister.

I will admit this is an irregular move, but it is the best choice for the Atlasian people and is in compliance with the terms and spirit of the Constitution.

This is gonna end badly.

Things have been rather too tame lately, don't you think? Makes me miss the good old days of 2015 when I was regularly accused of being a power-hungry communist.

Now you get to be the second worst Representative too.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And you read all your letters from Oceans away
and you took them to the bottom of the sea

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And you read all your letters from Oceans away
and you took them to the bottom of the sea

It wasn't an easy decision no but I'm confident it's the right one.

That's actually a call back to the post I made when the first iteration of TPP dissolved in March 2013.


I think that at any point Labor could have been saved. It is no harder to save Labor than it is to create a new party from scratch. I have twice proved the correctness of this, both with the RPP in early 2010 and the Feds in early 2015.

It takes probably at least 3 people willing to commit to the effort and one of whom who is afire with the passion to see it happen.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And you read all your letters from Oceans away
and you took them to the bottom of the sea

It wasn't an easy decision no but I'm confident it's the right one.

That's actually a call back to the post I made when the first iteration of TPP dissolved in March 2013.


I think that at any point Labor could have been saved. It is no harder to save Labor than it is to create a new party from scratch. I have twice proved the correctness of this, both with the RPP in early 2010 and the Feds in early 2015.

It takes probably at least 3 people willing to commit to the effort and one of whom who is afire with the passion to see it happen.

I really did want to do that. I looked into it and tried to negotiate another arrangement with the PUP. However ultimately I'd prefer to actually have a strong chance rather than let my desire to save Labor harm the progressive cause. If it could've been saved it would have, but ultimately it's for the best now. However the policies and agenda will live on and Labor voters will have a good home with my candidacy.

Well that served as motivation, if the replacement is to be Hamilton's ARC and early Populares (a party that literally ran 3 or 4 socks of the same person for Regional Assembly and even went so far as to have them debate each other), you will try everything possible to preserve a respectable right of center party.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yes we need someone appointed to At-Large Seat #2 (and 9 but that is my cross to bear)

I would point out that Seat#2 has never not been held by a Laborite since the house was created. Peeb's (#1) was the same way until she went over to Peace Party.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

lol "post reset"


Labor was without Congressional Representation from October through December 2015.


Feds were in the same boat from March 2015 through May 2015.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

More forced alterations of people's registrations!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So one person voting aye is going to change the registrations of over 20 Atlasians?

So in the end we finally learn the truth.


"The Party decides what the people think, an elite decides what the party thinks, a central committtee decides what the elite thinks, and Lenin decides what they all think".


#LaborisRed

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So one person voting aye is going to change the registrations of over 20 Atlasians?

So in the end we finally learn the truth.


"The Party decides what the people think, an elite decides what the party thinks, a central committtee decides what the elite thinks, and Lenin decides what they all think".


#LaborisRed

Only when a party nears death can it show it's true colors. When you think about it, that maroon looked pretty reddish to me! Coincidence? I think not.

PUP has basically the same color.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So one person voting aye is going to change the registrations of over 20 Atlasians?

So in the end we finally learn the truth.


"The Party decides what the people think, an elite decides what the party thinks, a central committtee decides what the elite thinks, and Lenin decides what they all think".


#LaborisRed

Only when a party nears death can it show it's true colors. When you think about it, that maroon looked pretty reddish to me! Coincidence? I think not.

PUP has basically the same color.

Good sir! PUP's is to commemorate the Red Panda! How dare you imply communist tendencies on such a poor, defenseless creature.

Why don't you just tax Alliance and redistribute their color. After all, the first time socialism came to Atlasia, it came wrapped in the cascades and holding a cute animal.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So one person voting aye is going to change the registrations of over 20 Atlasians?

So in the end we finally learn the truth.


"The Party decides what the people think, an elite decides what the party thinks, a central committtee decides what the elite thinks, and Lenin decides what they all think".


#LaborisRed

Only when a party nears death can it show it's true colors. When you think about it, that maroon looked pretty reddish to me! Coincidence? I think not.

PUP has basically the same color.

Good sir! PUP's is to commemorate the Red Panda! How dare you imply communist tendencies on such a poor, defenseless creature.

Why don't you just tax Alliance and redistribute their color. After all, the first time socialism came to Atlasia, it came wrapped in the cascades and holding a cute animal.

This may need to be included in our next platform. DFW, take notes!

This almost as cringe worthy as Napoleon going out as just another Labor number.