This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[afleitch]

Always preferred the Internationale anyway, despite its connotation with certain unsavoury regimes

The problem is that the Internationale traditionally had competing terrible English translations that jarred with the melody.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How on earth did Labour end with a German Christmas song as the melody for their party hymn? I can't stop laughing, at the moment.

The key thing to remember about the Labour Party is that it is an incredibly funny political party.

[Lord Halifax]

How on earth did Labour end with a German Christmas song as the melody for their party hymn? I can't stop laughing, at the moment.

The key thing to remember about the Labour Party is that it is an incredibly funny political party.

Funny strange, funny ha-ha, or both?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How on earth did Labour end with a German Christmas song as the melody for their party hymn? I can't stop laughing, at the moment.

The key thing to remember about the Labour Party is that it is an incredibly funny political party.

Funny strange, funny ha-ha, or both?

By this point objectively both as Party culture really is very... erm... unreconstructed... in certain ways, but always (and especially and very, very much) the latter.

[CumbrianLefty]

Reeves speech was rather more substantial - and interesting - than some advance briefing suggested.

[CumbrianLefty]

In news that some (himself especially) will think important, Owen Jones has left the Labour building.

[Coldstream]

It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

[Wiswylfen]

It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

[Coldstream]

It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

1. I’ve never called him a racist or a misogynist, personally I don’t think he’s either, I just think he’s blinkered. And seems to struggle with understanding the views of others, which means he paints himself in to a corner on issues he doesn’t need to.

2. It’s sad if you live in a world where you think the pity I feel for what he’s become is unpleasant.

[Wiswylfen]

It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

1. I’ve never called him a racist or a misogynist, personally I don’t think he’s either, I just think he’s blinkered. And seems to struggle with understanding the views of others, which means he paints himself in to a corner on issues he doesn’t need to.

2. It’s sad if you live in a world where you think the pity I feel for what he’s become is unpleasant.

Yes I do think it's unpleasant. I think the whole (insincere) "oh actually I pity him really" thing is deeply unpleasant.

It is for immensely good reason the realm of people like Jake Wallis Simons—who, when not making absurd accusations of racism, writes erotica about 17-year-old girls—and Hadley Freeman, who when not losing her mind about transgender people bravely stands up for Women's Rights by circling the wagons around Nick Cohen.* Or Nick Timothy (who then of course ran away like the pathetic, miserable coward he is).

The accusation that Owen Jones fails to understand the views of others, whatever the truth of it, is an incredibly ironic one to follow a sentence in which you seem to think I said that you called him a racist or misogynist.

*Now a martyr, brutally cancelled by that mean Jolyon Maugham man over the Trans. Not, as some suggest, because he is a sexual predator and has faced no actual consequences.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I think OJ is just too online (as are his haters fwiw: the way some people talk you'd think he was the evil puppet master behind Corbyn)

[Coldstream]

It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

1. I’ve never called him a racist or a misogynist, personally I don’t think he’s either, I just think he’s blinkered. And seems to struggle with understanding the views of others, which means he paints himself in to a corner on issues he doesn’t need to.

2. It’s sad if you live in a world where you think the pity I feel for what he’s become is unpleasant.

Yes I do think it's unpleasant. I think the whole (insincere) "oh actually I pity him really" thing is deeply unpleasant.

It is for immensely good reason the realm of people like Jake Wallis Simons—who, when not making absurd accusations of racism, writes erotica about 17-year-old girls—and Hadley Freeman, who when not losing her mind about transgender people bravely stands up for Women's Rights by circling the wagons around Nick Cohen.* Or Nick Timothy (who then of course ran away like the pathetic, miserable coward he is).

The accusation that Owen Jones fails to understand the views of others, whatever the truth of it, is an incredibly ironic one to follow a sentence in which you seem to think I said that you called him a racist or misogynist.

*Now a martyr, brutally cancelled by that mean Jolyon Maugham man over the Trans. Not, as some suggest, because he is a sexual predator and has faced no actual consequences.

I do pity him, he’s not a stupid man or a bigot but he’s thrown away any relevance or influence he could have had because of his obsession with Starmer - which is not based in reality. Which is not good for the Labour Party, because he’s someone who actually understood class-based politics.

I’ve also next to no clue who the other people you’re talking about are, and I doubt it has much to do with Owen Jones from what I can glean.

[TheTide]

Jones suffers from looking about twenty years younger than he is. He's in his late 30s.

[Wiswylfen]

It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

1. I’ve never called him a racist or a misogynist, personally I don’t think he’s either, I just think he’s blinkered. And seems to struggle with understanding the views of others, which means he paints himself in to a corner on issues he doesn’t need to.

2. It’s sad if you live in a world where you think the pity I feel for what he’s become is unpleasant.

Yes I do think it's unpleasant. I think the whole (insincere) "oh actually I pity him really" thing is deeply unpleasant.

It is for immensely good reason the realm of people like Jake Wallis Simons—who, when not making absurd accusations of racism, writes erotica about 17-year-old girls—and Hadley Freeman, who when not losing her mind about transgender people bravely stands up for Women's Rights by circling the wagons around Nick Cohen.* Or Nick Timothy (who then of course ran away like the pathetic, miserable coward he is).

The accusation that Owen Jones fails to understand the views of others, whatever the truth of it, is an incredibly ironic one to follow a sentence in which you seem to think I said that you called him a racist or misogynist.

*Now a martyr, brutally cancelled by that mean Jolyon Maugham man over the Trans. Not, as some suggest, because he is a sexual predator and has faced no actual consequences.

I do pity him, he’s not a stupid man or a bigot but he’s thrown away any relevance or influence he could have had because of his obsession with Starmer - which is not based in reality. Which is not good for the Labour Party, because he’s someone who actually understood class-based politics.

I’ve also next to no clue who the other people you’re talking about are, and I doubt it has much to do with Owen Jones from what I can glean.

Oh it has everything to do with Owen Jones. Jake Wallis Simons says he's a racist. Hadley Freeman says he's a racist and a misogynist. Nick Timothy says he's mentally disturbed for... uhh... reasons. And then often from the same people, and/or their associates, we get the I Pity Owen Jones act. The very least you could do is save it for elsewhere: I doubt many people on this forum are going to buy it.

And also, please put some effort into disguising that you're copying from Luke Akehurst's tweets. Owen Jones is 'obsessed' (no not really) with Keir Starmer—Keir Starmer is obsessed with (complaining to Twitter about, ordering candidate training over) the fact some left-wing jokester made a fake AI recording of his voice along with a dozen purporting to be Captain Tom speaking from heaven.

[Cassius]

Jones suffers from looking about twenty years younger than he is. He's in his late 30s.

A sixteen year old trapped inside the body of a fourteen year old.

[Coldstream]

It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

1. I’ve never called him a racist or a misogynist, personally I don’t think he’s either, I just think he’s blinkered. And seems to struggle with understanding the views of others, which means he paints himself in to a corner on issues he doesn’t need to.

2. It’s sad if you live in a world where you think the pity I feel for what he’s become is unpleasant.

Yes I do think it's unpleasant. I think the whole (insincere) "oh actually I pity him really" thing is deeply unpleasant.

It is for immensely good reason the realm of people like Jake Wallis Simons—who, when not making absurd accusations of racism, writes erotica about 17-year-old girls—and Hadley Freeman, who when not losing her mind about transgender people bravely stands up for Women's Rights by circling the wagons around Nick Cohen.* Or Nick Timothy (who then of course ran away like the pathetic, miserable coward he is).

The accusation that Owen Jones fails to understand the views of others, whatever the truth of it, is an incredibly ironic one to follow a sentence in which you seem to think I said that you called him a racist or misogynist.

*Now a martyr, brutally cancelled by that mean Jolyon Maugham man over the Trans. Not, as some suggest, because he is a sexual predator and has faced no actual consequences.

I do pity him, he’s not a stupid man or a bigot but he’s thrown away any relevance or influence he could have had because of his obsession with Starmer - which is not based in reality. Which is not good for the Labour Party, because he’s someone who actually understood class-based politics.

I’ve also next to no clue who the other people you’re talking about are, and I doubt it has much to do with Owen Jones from what I can glean.

Oh it has everything to do with Owen Jones. Jake Wallis Simons says he's a racist. Hadley Freeman says he's a racist and a misogynist. Nick Timothy says he's mentally disturbed for... uhh... reasons. And then often from the same people, and/or their associates, we get the I Pity Owen Jones act. The very least you could do is save it for elsewhere: I doubt many people on this forum are going to buy it.

And also, please put some effort into disguising that you're copying from Luke Akehurst's tweets. Owen Jones is 'obsessed' (no not really) with Keir Starmer—Keir Starmer is obsessed with (complaining to Twitter about, ordering candidate training over) the fact some left-wing jokester made a fake AI recording of his voice along with a dozen purporting to be Captain Tom speaking from heaven.

I’d gently suggest you’re more than a little conspiratorial if people as unimportant as Hadley Freeman and Luke Akehurst occupy enough of your thoughts that you believe a random person expressing sympathy for Owen Jones is an associate of them. I’ll never chide someone for being too online (if for no other reason than it would be hypocritical to do so on a politics forum!)…but even I don’t really follow what you’re talking about.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Former star columnist leaves political party; attempts to gain attention for doing so. Film at eleven.

He's an interesting case study in how easily a career in that field can go sideways rather quickly: he had a very comfortable niche lined up as a critical friend of the Labour Party positioned slightly to the left of the leadership - and quite a lot more 'liberal' - and that's a good spot for 'influence' and high billings in certain parts of the media. Potentially makes you a useful vector for gossip and leaks as well, and that's always good news in career terms. Then along came the Corbyn leadership which undermined that model and forced choices of one sort or another on everyone. He mostly made poor choices. Now he's essentially a parody of himself, especially as no one would read him for his analytical skills (which are abysmal) or his prose (which is cacophonous). He still has that Gruaniad column, but it's no longer a column that matters in any sense and he no longer has access. I presume that he can get Sharon Graham to talk to him, but otherwise it's just a list of people slowly heading towards the scrapheap themselves. None of this really matters, but on a human level it's a little grim.

[Wiswylfen]

It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

1. I’ve never called him a racist or a misogynist, personally I don’t think he’s either, I just think he’s blinkered. And seems to struggle with understanding the views of others, which means he paints himself in to a corner on issues he doesn’t need to.

2. It’s sad if you live in a world where you think the pity I feel for what he’s become is unpleasant.

Yes I do think it's unpleasant. I think the whole (insincere) "oh actually I pity him really" thing is deeply unpleasant.

It is for immensely good reason the realm of people like Jake Wallis Simons—who, when not making absurd accusations of racism, writes erotica about 17-year-old girls—and Hadley Freeman, who when not losing her mind about transgender people bravely stands up for Women's Rights by circling the wagons around Nick Cohen.* Or Nick Timothy (who then of course ran away like the pathetic, miserable coward he is).

The accusation that Owen Jones fails to understand the views of others, whatever the truth of it, is an incredibly ironic one to follow a sentence in which you seem to think I said that you called him a racist or misogynist.

*Now a martyr, brutally cancelled by that mean Jolyon Maugham man over the Trans. Not, as some suggest, because he is a sexual predator and has faced no actual consequences.

I do pity him, he’s not a stupid man or a bigot but he’s thrown away any relevance or influence he could have had because of his obsession with Starmer - which is not based in reality. Which is not good for the Labour Party, because he’s someone who actually understood class-based politics.

I’ve also next to no clue who the other people you’re talking about are, and I doubt it has much to do with Owen Jones from what I can glean.

Oh it has everything to do with Owen Jones. Jake Wallis Simons says he's a racist. Hadley Freeman says he's a racist and a misogynist. Nick Timothy says he's mentally disturbed for... uhh... reasons. And then often from the same people, and/or their associates, we get the I Pity Owen Jones act. The very least you could do is save it for elsewhere: I doubt many people on this forum are going to buy it.

And also, please put some effort into disguising that you're copying from Luke Akehurst's tweets. Owen Jones is 'obsessed' (no not really) with Keir Starmer—Keir Starmer is obsessed with (complaining to Twitter about, ordering candidate training over) the fact some left-wing jokester made a fake AI recording of his voice along with a dozen purporting to be Captain Tom speaking from heaven.

I’d gently suggest you’re more than a little conspiratorial if people as unimportant as Hadley Freeman and Luke Akehurst occupy enough of your thoughts that you believe a random person expressing sympathy for Owen Jones is an associate of them. I’ll never chide someone for being too online (if for no other reason than it would be hypocritical to do so on a politics forum!)…but even I don’t really follow what you’re talking about.

I don't know what part of it's supposed to be too online? Hadley Freeman was a Guardian columnist, now she works for the Times. Luke Akehurst, like it or not, sits on the Labour NEC and has significant power over the 'organised' right. But even if it were, it wouldn't matter: our politics, regardless of whether you want them to be, are online. Hence why Luke Akehurst gets into Twitter fights (via searching his own name) with random leftists.

[Coldstream]

Interestingly, I don’t follow Luke Akehurst (really isn’t the fact I vote in the NEC elections bad enough?) but I actually do follow Owen Jones on twitter.

Perhaps I ought to though, if as you seem to believe he’s the only person besides me who’s ever thought there was something strange about OJ’s fixation on Starmer. It has been so lonely with such a unique view.

Would love to know what “briefcase vibes” means in English too fwiw. But I’m sure that everyone else is as tired as I am of this ah, debate. Perhaps you can DM it to me.

[Wiswylfen]

Interestingly, I don’t follow Luke Akehurst (really isn’t the fact I vote in the NEC elections bad enough?) but I actually do follow Owen Jones on twitter.

Perhaps I ought to though, if as you seem to believe he’s the only person besides me who’s ever thought there was something strange about OJ’s fixation on Starmer. It has been so lonely with such a unique view.

Would love to know what “briefcase vibes” means in English too fwiw. But I’m sure that everyone else is as tired as I am of this ah, debate. Perhaps you can DM it to me.

Because you have a tendency to lose them? If you're going to post about how you've "always suspected he’s not all there" and his views being "increasingly detached from reality" don't be too surprised if someone pushes back against it and asks if Guardian man is not as bad as you purport him to be. One of these days someone will actually explain how Guardian man bad. One of these days. And I don't mean in Al's sense—'Guardian man bad' is, above all else, the sentiment of people to whom journalists actually being good at their job* is completely irrelevant. Just to be clear, since apparently I have to, I'm not accusing you of being among them.

Returning to the Akehurst business, I really don't get why you're trying to deny something so obvious. You never talk about class, then there's a six-hour gap between him talking about how Owen Jones "had a serious, class-based analysis of society" and you about how he "actually understood class-based politics". I'm not talking about you thinking that there is "something strange about OJ’s fixation on Starmer" (what fixation would that be?) so IDK what that's about other than you ascribing opinions to me I don't have.

*Or refraining from sexually assaulting their colleagues.

[Coldstream]

I wrote my dissertation on class and talk about it a lot. I seriously doubt Akehurst said what you’re claiming he did, but if he did that’s just another example of how common the view that OJ isn’t a stupid guy is.

[Zinneke]

OCTOGON

[Battista Minola 1616]

I think I finished reading the above exchange knowing less about Owen Jones than I did at the beginning.

[afleitch]

Personally I have a feeling that Owen Jones' position will be salient in about two years. I think he's banking on that.

I do however think that the continued infantilisation of him; how he looks, how young he looks is incredibly crass and characteristic of broader issues with anyone under the age of 40 (just...in his case) holding any position in the public arena. Particularly when it comes from the same politicians and media that regularly fête a rotation of young, suited adenoidal Tories.

There are very few and by few, I mean it's literally just him, regular contributors to the press; in the papers and on TV who stand up for trans people for example. Or a number of other matters.

Which is why his voice is particularly loud and intolerable and everywhere to others, because there's no one else in the media willing to go on record to advocate not just controversial opinions from a leftist perspective, but middle of the road opinions on the current moral panic.

[Wiswylfen]

Dude you didn’t know I existed til yesterday 😂 I wrote my dissertation on class and talk about it a lot. I seriously doubt Akehurst said what you’re claiming he did, but if he did that’s just another example of how common the view that OJ isn’t a stupid guy is.

No you don't. If you're going to lie at least make it convincing. 2,000 posts and you never talk about it. And on the occasions you do, it's "everyone who goes to a private school is upper-class" and "the reactionary working class used to vote and join Labour". By your own admission the only reason you don't think the 'affluent posh bits' of Kensington vote Labour (as you expected them to) is because you've actually canvassed there.

And 'dude' I have known you existed for two years now. Again this has nothing to do with opinion of Owen Jones; it is about the fact it is patently obvious where and from who you borrowed your words from.

This may shock you, but I’ve on occasion spoken to people outside of this forum. My comments on this forum do not consist of an exhaustive list of my correspondence or indeed views.

Nice to know I’m impactful enough for you to have thought about me for two years though, if I ever need a biographer I’ll know who to call!

Known about you for two years, thought about you for two years—still doing that 'stuff which isn't there' thing huh.

Of course I talk about the forum: where else? From your (lack of) statements about class on the forum it is easily observed that you have as little interest in 'class' as understanding of it. I have no idea how someone who wrote a dissertation on class can display such a total lack of interest in it, let alone an understanding of it that, again, leads to you expecting the 'affluent posh bits' of Kensington to vote Labour.

And, you know, given how narrow the results were... did you, then, expect the north of the constituency to vote Conservative? I could maybe understand you expecting them to vote Labour were Kensington an overwhelmingly Labour constituency, but no the Conservatives have polled between 38% and 52% there over the past fifteen years.