Obama on Small-Town Pennsylvania...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Maybe it wouldn't look quite so bad if he didn't talk about them as though they are an essentially inferior branch of humanity to be talked about in the way that you might talk about, I don't know, hefted sheep.

You'd think that a Luo would grasp that, but apparently not. Disappointing.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Obama has never lived in the real America.  Therefore, his inability to connect with real Americans is unsurprising.

Here's the important question?  Has Obama ever lived in or visited "New America"?

Which - Iraq or Afghanistan?

Are you familiar with the poster known as bandit?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This isn't actually getting any coverage is it? Amusing as the media's general attitude towards the non-metropolitan working class is even worse, far worse actually, than what Obama's seems to be (ie; at least he doesn't seem to view them with contempt). Still think it's sad that someone from his background thinks along those lines though.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Btw, I agree with you about the media's general attitude.  Personally, I don't know whether we know enough yet to where we can conclude one way or other that Obama's attitude includes "contempt".  Certainly not from this statement.

I felt like being charitable for once

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And, of course, some people find a certain sort of pity even more offensive than outright contempt.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I actually think what Obama is saying is painting an accurate picture. That's my thoughts on the matter. Call me what you wish.

Of course you, and most other people here, think that. But that's only because it happens to fit in with your prejudices.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Full text:

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Note that at no point does Obama mention what he would do to improve the economy of post-industrial areas. 'tis a pity that most politicians have no sense of irony.

(his basic analysis of the situation is as wrong as in his earlier comments, but that's a given).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Al, would you elaborate on the inaccuracies of the comment for us pathetic suburbanites?

I can't entirely remember the context in which I wrote that but...

Basically the remarks seem to be founded on an assumption of deviancy; these people should be voting for him, only a minority are, therefore there must be something wrong with the majority group... and from this assumption comes the rest of what he said (including the parts that people seem to be getting most worked-up about).

Further to that, he seems to think that the fundamental problem that these areas face isn't demographic and economic, so much as it's about people in these areas having no "faith" in "Washington" and the political process generally.

Which, frankly, is bollocks.

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If someone were to argue this:

"Viewed in the context of voting patterns, assuming that affluent suburban voters are self-loathing hypocrites seems accurate to me. What else explains the bizarre and apparently contradictory electoral record of these places post-Watergate than the fact that affluence has failed to bring these people the happiness that these people clearly feel is their birthright? Clearly the lack of the happiness that they feel entitled to has made them bitter and this is reflected in the petulant voting patterns of such areas over the past three decades"

Would you resent it?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Obama has basically expressed a view often reiterated in works like What's The Matter With Kansas, ie. why do working class people or people in post-industrial areas vote against their economic interests and instead tend to vote on fringe issues like gun control or abortion

I can't speak for anyone else (though I'll agree that a lot here is over-the-top in the extreme) but my problems with what he said are that;

the remarks seem to be founded on an assumption of deviancy; these people should be voting for him, only a minority are, therefore there must be something wrong with the majority group... and from this assumption comes the rest of what he said (including the parts that people seem to be getting most worked-up about

And also;

Maybe it wouldn't look quite so bad if he didn't talk about them as though they are an essentially inferior branch of humanity to be talked about in the way that you might talk about, I don't know, hefted sheep.

You'd think that a Luo would grasp that, but apparently not. Disappointing.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

In case anyone's interested in the general subject, I've posted an interesting Dissent article from a few years back over here

[Filuwaúrdjan]

General point here... why should the leaders of the country be in touch with small town America.  It's really such a cute statement. 

Because, in a democracy, the leaders of a country should be in touch with all sections of society.

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Nice.

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The title and the status it implies is merely a reflection of their political and economic power. It has nothing to do with whether or not such power and status is deserved.

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I Know My Place. Would sir like me to doff my cap at sir, sir? Would sir like me to hew him some wood or draw him some water, sir, sir?

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The whole of it.

D E M O C R A C Y. Ever heard of that concept before, your highness?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What happens when democracy truly doesn't work.

This looks like it translates as "what happens when my party loses".

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Bearing in mind some of the disgusting rubbish you've been spouting off here, I doubt that you give a tinkers cuss for equality or freedom; you just think that you do because paying lip-service to such concepts is part of the ideological (if that's too grand a word) package that you've bought into.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

1) We do not live in a democracy, we live in a constitution republic based on the idea that we elect people MORE QUALIFIED TO WORK IN GOVERNMENT TO REPRESENT US.  This is a horrible misconception about this country.

lol, not this nonsense again. In practice there is little difference between "representative democracy" and a "constitutional republic".

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Why is it that the only section of society you snobbish liberal bastards think that it's alright to be bigoted against is the working class?

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Oh, so now his royal fucking highness gets to determined the nature of truth... great...

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No they were not and neither was anyone else.

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Hypocrite

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You certainly fit all the worst stereotypes of the so-called elite.

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This does not fit in with the vile classist idiocy you've been spouting off so far.

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And this sort of attitude, children, is why American Liberalism has been intellectually and morally bankrupt for the past few decades.

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Fascist

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There would be no rejection of such simple ideas in a society that promotes rationality and logic.  We do not seem to do that yet as a majority.

In this thread you have demonstrated no rationality and no logic. Just thought you ought to know.

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Your mind appears to be as closed as Anglesey on a Sunday.

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lol; this is exactly the sort of nonsense the spoiled "radical" brats used to trot out in the '60's and early '70's. But at least they could write a bit better than you.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, we know Al.. your penis is unimaginably bigger than any of ours could ever dream to be...

"I gave up comparing genitalia in school"

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I am speaking to the debate in hand, at least as I see it. I don't care what impact the storm-in-a-teacup that sparked this thread has on the election.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, we know Al.. your penis is unimaginably bigger than any of ours could ever dream to be...

"I gave up comparing genitalia in school"

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I am speaking to the debate in hand, at least as I see it. I don't care what impact the storm-in-a-teacup that sparked this thread has on the election.

You just can't help yourself, can you?

In what respect?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A squib is a sort of firework. If it's damp, it doesn't go off.

Btw, was that a poll just of the Harrisburg area [question mark].

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The question was "do you personally find the comments offensive?"  I guess that is slightly different from "were you personally offended?", though, but I'm not sure you can get a perfect question to get at what I think you're getting at.

Most people wouldn't really see a difference between "do you personally find the comments offensive" and "were you personally offended".

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Of course. But then, they were the people he was "insulting", weren't they.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Can we agree to just disagree?

No

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No, I don't think so.

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You were the one who implied membership in an educated elite...

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Can't take what you dish out to others, eh?