1964: JFK versus Goldwater.

[Kingpoleon]

384 - 154
John F. Kennedy(D-MA)/Stuart Symington(D-MO) - 53.6%
Barry Goldwater(R-AZ)/Spiro Agnew(R-MD) - 46.0%

+7.5% GOP

A marginal victory of seven and a half points.

[Kingpoleon]

JFK would push for civil rights, too. With that, Goldwater either gets a "Southern moderate" or a former Democrat like Smathers or somesuch to begin the Southern strategy.

I suspect Johnson would be dumped in 1964 for the same reasons Agnew nearly was in 1972. With him gone, JFK chooses Symington for great foreign policy experience.

[Kingpoleon]

I think the map which bobloblaw constructed. The idea that JFK going to Dallas to bolster his support in Texas in '64, suggests to me that LBJ was staying on the ticket and the fact that Texas was very much on JFK's radar, meant that LBJ was central to JFK's reelection prospects.  Symington he didn't much know about, while LBJ whatever the personal issues were, was easier to keep than dump. Symington wasn't owed anything by JFK, where as LBJ ensured victory for JFK in 1960. There was also the matter of institutional and political memory to consider. Keeping LBJ was also tidier politically and JFK was no fool.

You do understand JFK would have later met with Coke Stevenson?

I suspect Stevenson wanted Kennedy to convince Connally to lead a coup against Johnson. Kennedy's reported planned meeting afterwards with Stevenson is actually one of the few pieces of evidence favoring a Johnson-assassination plot against Kennedy.

[Kingpoleon]

I think the map which bobloblaw constructed. The idea that JFK going to Dallas to bolster his support in Texas in '64, suggests to me that LBJ was staying on the ticket and the fact that Texas was very much on JFK's radar, meant that LBJ was central to JFK's reelection prospects.  Symington he didn't much know about, while LBJ whatever the personal issues were, was easier to keep than dump. Symington wasn't owed anything by JFK, where as LBJ ensured victory for JFK in 1960. There was also the matter of institutional and political memory to consider. Keeping LBJ was also tidier politically and JFK was no fool.

You do understand JFK would have later met with Coke Stevenson?

I suspect Stevenson wanted Kennedy to convince Connally to lead a coup against Johnson. Kennedy's reported planned meeting afterwards with Stevenson is actually one of the few pieces of evidence favoring a Johnson-assassination plot against Kennedy.

crazytown

I agree with you that Johnson didn't assassinate Kennedy. Is that what you're saying?

I disagree if you're denying that he was meeting with non-Johnson members of the Texas establishment.