Pennsylvania judge upholds voter-ID law

[Tender Branson]

Pennsylvania voter ID law should go forward, Commonwealth Court rules

HARRISBURG -- A Commonwealth Court judge has ruled in favor of the state's new law requiring photo identification at the polls, declaring that acquiring and presenting the ID cards is not an unconstitutional burden on voters.

In his 70-page opinion, Judge Robert Simpson, who presided over a week-long hearing that sought to overturn the five-month-old law, decided against granting an injunction that would have prevented the law from going into effect for the Nov. 6 general election.

He wrote that opponents of the new law, who argued that too many voters lack and would not be able to acquire acceptable ID cards, "did not establish ... that disenfranchisement was immediate or inevitable."

The judge added that he believed that several of the individuals presented as examples of those unable to travel to obtain a photo ID card would qualify for absentee voting. Those voting absentee must write their state ID card number or last four digits of their Social Security card on their ballot, or include a copy of another acceptable ID card.

If they instead go to the polls without an ID card, they could vote using provisional ballot, he wrote, adding that any issues could be resolved afterward on a case-by-case basis.

"I am not convinced any of the individual petitioners or other witnesses will not have their votes counted in the general election," the judge wrote, later describing the statute as "merely an election regulation to verify a voter's identity."

The decision regarding the controversial statute is expected to be promptly appealed to the state Supreme Court in an effort to obtain a final ruling from the top court before the general election.

That panel is evenly split between three Democrats and three Republicans with the suspension of Justice Joan Orie Melvin, a Republican.

A majority vote of four justices would be needed to halt the law's implementation.

Judge Simpson noted the likelihood of that appeal in his decision, stating that stopping the law now -- and in turn the educational efforts underway by state officials -- while an appeal is under review would cause "great injury" should the law again be upheld in the Supreme Court.

In a statement shortly after the decision was released, officials with the ACLU confirmed that they plan to appeal.

"Given clear evidence that impersonation fraud is not a problem, we had hoped that the court would show greater concern for the hundreds of thousands of voters who will be disenfranchised by this law," Witold Walczak, legal director of the state's ACLU chapter.

Gov. Tom Corbett, a Republican, issued a statement this morning saying that the decision will allow the state to continue concentrating on educating voters.

"Now that the court has upheld the constitutionality of the law, we can continue to focus our attention on ensuring that every Pennsylvania citizen who wants to vote has the identification necessary to make sure their vote counts," he said.

Secretary of the Commonwealth Carol Aichele, whose department oversees elections in Pennsylvania, said she was "pleased" the court upheld the law though she testified in the case that she did not fully understand it.

"This law will reinforce the principle of one person, one vote," she said. "By giving us a reliable way to verify the identity of each voter, the voter ID law will enhance confidence in our elections.

Read more: http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/12228/1254241-178-0.stm#ixzz23dXktPqW

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Immediate reaction: Yes, yes, all right, I'm not at all fond of this and I think the motivations behind these laws are profoundly unethical and immoral but they might not actually be 'illegal' as enacted and...

Secretary of the Commonwealth Carol Aichele, whose department oversees elections in Pennsylvania, said she was "pleased" the court upheld the law though she testified in the case that she did not fully understand it.

...what the [Inks] what the Hell is wrong with people?!

[krazen1211]

It's really funny how these people continue to claim disenfranchisement, produce actual examples of it before a judge, put them on the witness stand, and, well, have the judge laugh as he points out that they aren't disenfranchised.

Talk about not learning from your mistakes.

[krazen1211]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20120817_Lead_plaintiff_in_Pennsylvania_voter_ID_case_gets_her_photo_ID.html?imageId=84640116

The day after a judge upheld Pennsylvania's new voter identification law, the lead plaintiff in the suit seeking to block the law went to a PennDot office and was issued the photo ID card she needs to vote.



Lol! Whine about the ID law for months, lose in court, and get the ID within 24 hours.

[Sbane]

What the Democrats need to do is raise awareness and help people who need to get ID's. Like I said in the other thread, if it impacts elections, it will be only for a cycle or two. The motivations behind these laws is what I am more interested about. What problem was the legislature trying to solve or prevent? Cite?

[J. J.]

What the Democrats need to do is raise awareness and help people who need to get ID's. Like I said in the other thread, if it impacts elections, it will be only for a cycle or two. The motivations behind these laws is what I am more interested about. What problem was the legislature trying to solve or prevent? Cite?

The discovered several hundred problems, including voter impersonation:  http://www.phillyrecord.com/2012/07/schmidt-investigation-finds-illegal-voting-in-primary/

I though that the DA's Office called me about a petition that I signed (and in my case, the signature was valid).

There is also a fairly large voter ID effort with state representatives offices, community offices and local churches, including my church.

[Sbane]

Random question but do you attend a Black church, JJ?

[angus]

Funny thing.  We have had thread after thread about voter ID on this forum.  I've been a registered voter in, let's see..., seven states now, not including PA.  PA makes eight, I think.  And I've been voting pretty regularly since 1986.  Never once have I been asked for any sort of ID at the polls.   This will be a first. 

It actually states something to that effect on my newly-acquired Pennsylvania voter's registration card.  Let's see if I can dig it up...

Damn, you'd think I would keep up with stuff like that.  Well, anyway, I remember reading the back of it which states that I need to be prepared to show either a federally-issued or state-issued photo identification when I vote.  I read "state-issued" as "issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" or "not your Iowa Driver's license, by the way.  Find something else." 

I must remember to take my passport with me if and when I vote.  Presumably a US passport will qualify as "federally-issued photo identification." 

[Tender Branson]

Funny thing.  We have had thread after thread about voter ID on this forum.  I've been a registered voter in, let's see..., seven states now, not including PA.  PA makes eight, I think.  And I've been voting pretty regularly since 1986.  Never once have I been asked for any sort of ID at the polls.   This will be a first. 

It actually states something to that effect on my newly-acquired Pennsylvania voter's registration card.  Let's see if I can dig it up...

Damn, you'd think I would keep up with stuff like that.  Well, anyway, I remember reading the back of it which states that I need to be prepared to show either a federally-issued or state-issued photo identification when I vote.  I read "state-issued" as "issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" or "not your Iowa Driver's license, by the way.  Find something else." 

I must remember to take my passport with me if and when I vote.  Presumably a US passport will qualify as "federally-issued photo identification." 

Oh, you poor ...

You now have to do what we voters in every other civilized country have to do, bring a valid photo ID to the polling place. That is such a hard thing to do ...

[angus]

you talkina me? 

You talkinta me?

You talkin to me?

I don't see nobody else here.  You--

You talkin to me?




Seriously, though, no reason to preach to the choir.  See my many, many rants about this.

[J. J.]

Welcome to the state.  I was asked in the primary.

[Pheurton Skeurto]

In regards to the ruling, I support it. It's such a bogus argument that holding up a piece of plastic to prove that you are who you say are will somehow be a burden to seniors and young voters.

[J. J.]

Random question but do you attend a Black church, JJ?

Episcopalian, but the congregation is predominately black.  I also know people there from outside organizations. 

Though I switched parishes in 2009, my previous church was also predominately black.

[LastVoter]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/17/1121432/-I-was-denied-free-voter-ID-today-Pennsylvania

[Link]

Funny thing.  We have had thread after thread about voter ID on this forum.  I've been a registered voter in, let's see..., seven states now, not including PA.  PA makes eight, I think.  And I've been voting pretty regularly since 1986.  Never once have I been asked for any sort of ID at the polls.   This will be a first. 

It actually states something to that effect on my newly-acquired Pennsylvania voter's registration card.  Let's see if I can dig it up...

Damn, you'd think I would keep up with stuff like that.  Well, anyway, I remember reading the back of it which states that I need to be prepared to show either a federally-issued or state-issued photo identification when I vote.  I read "state-issued" as "issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" or "not your Iowa Driver's license, by the way.  Find something else." 

I must remember to take my passport with me if and when I vote.  Presumably a US passport will qualify as "federally-issued photo identification." 

Oh, you poor ...

You now have to do what we voters in every other civilized country have to do, bring a valid photo ID to the polling place. That is such a hard thing to do ...

Okay you live in Austria?  I've been to Phili and I've been to Vienna.  They are not the same.  You guys used to have compulsory voting right? I'm pretty sure the infrastructure in socialized Austria is far more robust and complete for getting the people on the margins of society registered and to the polls.

Nobody has a problem with voter id... if everyone has it.  The problem is out of nowhere all of a sudden Republicans have come up with all sorts of weird voting laws.  Voter ID being just one of them.

[muon2]

Funny thing.  We have had thread after thread about voter ID on this forum.  I've been a registered voter in, let's see..., seven states now, not including PA.  PA makes eight, I think.  And I've been voting pretty regularly since 1986.  Never once have I been asked for any sort of ID at the polls.   This will be a first. 

It actually states something to that effect on my newly-acquired Pennsylvania voter's registration card.  Let's see if I can dig it up...

Damn, you'd think I would keep up with stuff like that.  Well, anyway, I remember reading the back of it which states that I need to be prepared to show either a federally-issued or state-issued photo identification when I vote.  I read "state-issued" as "issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" or "not your Iowa Driver's license, by the way.  Find something else." 

I must remember to take my passport with me if and when I vote.  Presumably a US passport will qualify as "federally-issued photo identification." 

When did you get to PA, and what happened to the UNI gig?

[angus]

The problem is out of nowhere all of a sudden Republicans have come up with all sorts of weird voting laws. 

sort of.  Actually, I'd not meant to get into this when I initially posted.  Generally, I have less interest in politics than in the free pop psychology offered herein, and I have always been on the side of those who think it's reasonable to require photo identification to vote, but I think your post merits a response.

I've been hearing it on the local media (I use the plural of medium because I've heard it on both TV and radio), and reading it in the local press.  The issue is being spun essentially the same as it is nationally, with one huge difference.  Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai recently stated that the new voter ID law is "gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."  This is different, fundamentally, than the nebulous national complaint.  Here, we have a respected government official openly suggesting that a valid reason for public officials to support the law is that it will contribute to empowering a certain faction at the expense of another.  This is Reconstruction-era type stuff.  (It happens to the same party that was in charge of the nation during Reconstruction, but in my mind that matters little.)

I cringed on that hot day when I was driving home on the congested southeast PA state highway, listening to NPR, and I first heard the statement.  I'm a Romney supporter as well, but this reeks of too much insider trading.  If that really is the intent, then they're doing it for the wrong reasons.  Then again, I'm a Kantian at heart.  I think that motivation matters when I judge a politician.  I reckon that most Republicans and most Democrats don't really care about this sort of thing, and that most Republicans are okay with Turzai's reasoning, just as most Democrats would be okay with that same reasoning if we were living in some version of the Universe in which their guy would gain advantage.  I say that's bad reasoning no matter whom you support.  That's not the same as "coming up with all sorts of weird voting laws."  Both parties have been doing that for a long time, just as they have been coming up with all sorts of weird laws in general, but they mostly are doing it for the right reasons.  Both parties fuçk things up constantly, and neither party makes much sense most of the time, but they at least come at it from a decent place.  This reeks of pure political manoeuvering, and that's what bugs me. 

[Sbane]

We need an independent election commission, obviously. But that might be socialism/[insert scary ideology of your choice] or something.

[muon2]

We need an independent election commission, obviously. But that might be socialism/[insert scary ideology of your choice] or something.

Actually my county (GOP leaning DuPage) has an independent election commission. Are we scary?

[Sbane]

We need an independent election commission, obviously. But that might be socialism/[insert scary ideology of your choice] or something.

Actually my county (GOP leaning DuPage) has an independent election commission. Are we scary?

You guys are obviously socialist muslim atheist communist capitalist 1%ers.

[Tender Branson]

Funny thing.  We have had thread after thread about voter ID on this forum.  I've been a registered voter in, let's see..., seven states now, not including PA.  PA makes eight, I think.  And I've been voting pretty regularly since 1986.  Never once have I been asked for any sort of ID at the polls.   This will be a first.  

It actually states something to that effect on my newly-acquired Pennsylvania voter's registration card.  Let's see if I can dig it up...

Damn, you'd think I would keep up with stuff like that.  Well, anyway, I remember reading the back of it which states that I need to be prepared to show either a federally-issued or state-issued photo identification when I vote.  I read "state-issued" as "issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" or "not your Iowa Driver's license, by the way.  Find something else."  

I must remember to take my passport with me if and when I vote.  Presumably a US passport will qualify as "federally-issued photo identification."  

Oh, you poor ...

You now have to do what we voters in every other civilized country have to do, bring a valid photo ID to the polling place. That is such a hard thing to do ...

Okay you live in Austria?  I've been to Phili and I've been to Vienna.  They are not the same.  You guys used to have compulsory voting right? I'm pretty sure the infrastructure in socialized Austria is far more robust and complete for getting the people on the margins of society registered and to the polls.

Nobody has a problem with voter id... if everyone has it.  The problem is out of nowhere all of a sudden Republicans have come up with all sorts of weird voting laws.  Voter ID being just one of them.

That every citizen aged 16+ is automatically registered to vote here is not a feature of Socialism though. It's just a useful part of the mandatory personal registration in the town you live when you A) get born B) when you move in or out C) when you die - otherwise if you don't notice the town hall office in case of moving elsewhere you have to pay a fine of up to 3000$.

Which is an effective way of keeping our population registers up to date, because there are hardly any errors in there. And if you have an up to date population register in every town, it's easy to send election notification cards to every citizen aged 16+ about 1 week ahead of each election.

Of course, there's checks and balances here too. The election law says that for a period of 1 week each voter can inspect the voter list in each town hall office to check if he/she is actually on the voting list. Because of this, there have been only a handful of reports in recent election years where some voters have been left out of the voter rolls (mostly due to some town hall office workers who didn't accurately register or deregister people in their towns).

It would be good if the US applied a similar system, by setting up a decentralised database in each town/county/borough, which tracks the population movement of every person in the US. Currently, only immigration to the US is tracked, while emigration statistics in the US do simply not exist. Every person should have to register in the town where they mainly live or pay a fine. Then this should be saved in the local population register database, which should then send the data to a national centralised database, so that movements between states are tracked too (to avoid double-voting). If this system is implemented, every American citizen aged 18+ would be automatically registered to vote on election day and would get an election notification card in advance via mail.

To have an up to date population register in the US would also have another good effect: Currently, there are numerous different turnout figures. But with 1 up to date register, turnout would finally be accurate and comparable with turnout in other countries.

[J. J.]

They basically are now focusing on making sure people have ID, according to the coordinator at my church.

I think the law is too draconian, but I do support showing proof of ID and residence.

[angus]

too draconian,

Actually, Drako was pretty smart.  He replaced the prevailing system of oral law and blood feud by a written code to be enforced only by a court.  Sure, his justice was swift and unforgiving, but he drafted the first ever written constitution in Athens.  I think that calling laws which with we disagree, or those we think are too constricting, draconian is an insult to to the real Drako.

Oh, and we ended up going with Burmese food.  (I'd be willing to call it Myanmarian, but the staff called it Burmese, the neon sign in the window called it Burmese, and the menu made reference to Burmese, so we'll stick Burmese.)  The place is called Rangoon.  Nice tablecloths.  Music.  Rapid service.  The food was very spicy.  I had the curry fish, and there were lots of Thai red chiles and green chiles, but I also tasted the basil pork and the chicken.  Portions were huge.  A huge bowl of steamed white rice was placed on our table, but it wasn't the stick short-grain stuff you get in Chinese restaurants.  It was more of the Basmati variety.  Our appetizer was a sort of potato and chile and green onion pakora.  Well, that's the Indian word.  The Burmese had their own word for it, but I forget what it was called.  It was served with a sweet and sour chile vinaigrette.  They also had a decent house Cabernet that was $4.25 per pour, and the portions of wine were generous as well.  I'd considered ordering the bottle, but the pours were so large and the price so low that I'm glad I didn't.  I lost count, but I probably had the equivalent of a 750-ml bottle.  There were also dessert options, but I'm not really a dessert sort of guy.  This place was about two blocks from the Convention Center. 

I'd definitely go back to Rangoon in the future. 

[J. J.]

Gland you enjoyed it, Angus! 

I'm taking a friend, who is in town for the conference (chemical), out for dinner tomorrow. 

I'm also taking the precaution of adding my middle name to my voter registration.  I use it on my license.

[Torie]

What the Democrats need to do is raise awareness and help people who need to get ID's. Like I said in the other thread, if it impacts elections, it will be only for a cycle or two. The motivations behind these laws is what I am more interested about. What problem was the legislature trying to solve or prevent? Cite?

Presumably preventing ineligible people from voting, or people voting more than once, or voting for someone else?