why has new york preserved its white prole areas

[freepcrusher]

in a way that southern California never did? Like in southern california six decades ago you had places like Hawthorne, Huntington Park, Bell Gardens and a lot of other areas that were socal's equivalent of Staten Island or south shore LI. Those areas elected dem congressman but the dems they elected were fairly moderate for California (Chet Holifield, Cecil King). They were also the areas that had the biggest swings from Pat Brown in 1958/62 to Reagan in 1966.

Huntington Park/Bell Gardens saw the most dramatic shift where it went from like 25-30% hispanic in 1970 to 80% in 1980. Other areas saw a more gradual shift. But in general, there is really nowhere in LA County to draw a republican congressional district except for north county. While in New York, you can get as many as 5 districts just based off those areas. So what prevented those areas from having the white flight that you've seen in socal?

[Skill and Chance]

The Northeast in general still has them.

[freepcrusher]

The Northeast in general still has them.

if that's the case, what made SoCal not be as able to preserve them?

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

The Northeast in general still has them.

if that's the case, what made SoCal not be as able to preserve them?

It’s always had a significant hispanic population that has just grown dramatically over time, as well as the Asian population. This is, in the simplest explanation, cause California is the major “port” of entry for both groups.

[ottermax]

I think this is just a case of growth rates and a lifestyle preferences.

Property values have grown much faster along with population in Southern California. White working class communities have simply moved in SoCal farther out or even left the state altogether. This is in some ways a "gentrification", in other ways just a much faster growth rate among immigrant groups, and finally most Californians are just transient in nature compared to the Northeast with many having moved here fairly recently so the concept of moving to a new pasture is probably not as unusual.

The anecdotal pattern I've noticed (and this applies to the same communities now dominated by Hispanic Americans) is:
1st generation moves to follow the American Dream and have a single family home in a quiet community fueled by job opportunities in trades or industries.
2nd generation is generally more educated or wealthy, but tired of the congestion of the urban area and wants their own slice of the American Dream - they either accept the urbanization, remain in place, or as a large segment do - move to a place where they can afford their own SFH such as Riverside County, Las Vegas, Texas, etc.

[Bismarck]

The white “prole” areas in New York often have above average incomes and at least average rates of college education. Part of it is that New York whites often had ethnic identities that created an incentive to stick together. Most LA whites (aside from the large Jewish community) were old stock assimilated  British and German Protestants who could’ve found likeminded people elsewhere.

[ProgressiveModerate]

The white “prole” areas in New York often have above average incomes and at least average rates of college education. Part of it is that New York whites often had ethnic identities that created an incentive to stick together. Most LA whites (aside from the large Jewish community) were old stock assimilated  British and German Protestants who could’ve found likeminded people elsewhere.

This. I would almost encourage people to think of some of these ethnic whites as self-sorting in the way minority groups often do.

[Tintrlvr]

You only know about the ones in New York City that are still around. Lots of parts of New York were "white prole" in the same era as the LA areas you cite (say, up to the 1960s or 70s) but aren't any more, including some of the most beaten down parts of New York City (much of the northern and eastern Bronx and eastern Brooklyn were still "white prole" into the 60s and 70s), some neighborhoods that have massively gentrified (such as Greenpoint or Carroll Gardens) and some neighborhoods that have become not "white prole" relatively recently (Canarsie, Flushing, Woodhaven) or are currently in the process of becoming not "white prole" (Bensonhurst, Richmond Hill, pretty much all of NE Queens). And the ones that aren't changing, or aren't changing so fast, are the ones that either were always wealthy or became wealthy; somewhere like Dyker Heights is much more like Huntington Beach than Huntington Park.

Also, I have no idea where you would be drawing five Republican congressional districts in NYC and immediate surrounds. You can gerrymander in two safe districts and maybe make a third around Biden+10.

[ProgressiveModerate]

You only know about the ones in New York City that are still around. Lots of parts of New York were "white prole" in the same era as the LA areas you cite (say, up to the 1960s or 70s) but aren't any more, including some of the most beaten down parts of New York City (much of the northern and eastern Bronx and eastern Brooklyn were still "white prole" into the 60s and 70s), some neighborhoods that have massively gentrified (such as Greenpoint or Carroll Gardens) and some neighborhoods that have become not "white prole" relatively recently (Canarsie, Flushing, Woodhaven) or are currently in the process of becoming not "white prole" (Bensonhurst, Richmond Hill, pretty much all of NE Queens). And the ones that aren't changing, or aren't changing so fast, are the ones that either were always wealthy or became wealthy; somewhere like Dyker Heights is much more like Huntington Beach than Huntington Park.

Also, I have no idea where you would be drawing five Republican congressional districts in NYC and immediate surrounds. You can gerrymander in two safe districts and maybe make a third around Biden+10.

5 is basically impossible, but you can get 4 pretty R leaning districts between SI, South Brooklyn, whiter parts of Hempstead, and Suffolk counties.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-2022-maps/new-york/remedial-proposal/

Here's a good example. NY-01, NY-02, NY-04, and NY-11 all voted for Trump in 2020

[freepcrusher]

Lots of parts of New York were "white prole" in the same era as the LA areas you cite (say, up to the 1960s or 70s) but aren't any more, including some of the most beaten down parts of New York City

I remember hearing somewhere that Brownsville in Brooklyn went through a turbulent era then. It basically had a total turnover between being heavily jewish circa 1960 and being almost all black by 1980.

[freepcrusher]

Also, I have no idea where you would be drawing five Republican congressional districts in NYC and immediate surrounds. You can gerrymander in two safe districts and maybe make a third around Biden+10.

what i'm saying is that it's possible to sweep LI and to win a SI/Brooklyn seat which i think equals five seats. Obviously its not sustainable long term - but I can only think of one district in LA that has R rep (the McKeon seat). That's it.

It's also interesting how the sweep of long Island didn't translate to the 5th and 11th districts on the other side of the hudson