Vatican hypocrisy

[Keystone Phil]

Flyers, the Vatican does not run Villanova, St. Joes, or most of the Catholic Universities in America.

Anything to bring up local stuff...anything...

Let's hear about the Vatican conspiracy to bring down the Dems, Flyers!

To Joe, the Vatican doesn't need those things but we aren't going to sell off parts of our history. People always say, "Sell the art to pay the teachers more!" Not that easy and not smart at all. Many of the things we see have been donations to the Church and they should stay.

[Keystone Phil]

To Joe, the Vatican doesn't need those things but we aren't going to sell off parts of our history. People always say, "Sell the art to pay the teachers more!" Not that easy and not smart at all. Many of the things we see have been donations to the Church and they should stay.

What use are golden trickets to the starving poor?  What use are marble sculptures to the struggling Catholic priests in war-torn neighborhoods?  What use are classic paintings to anybody the Church is trying to help become better people?

Yeah because the Church hasn't done more than almost any other group when it comes to helping millions of displaced, starving people, Joe.  I could understand your point if the Church did nothing but we do more than most groups would ever even think of doing. We are entitled to the gifts that we receive.

[Keystone Phil]

Flyers, the Vatican does not run Villanova, St. Joes, or most of the Catholic Universities in America.

Anything to bring up local stuff...anything...

Let's hear about the Vatican conspiracy to bring down the Dems, Flyers!

To Joe, the Vatican doesn't need those things but we aren't going to sell off parts of our history. People always say, "Sell the art to pay the teachers more!" Not that easy and not smart at all. Many of the things we see have been donations to the Church and they should stay.

Did I say anything about a Vatican conspiracy?  I also found it amazing that our Archdiocese gave Eastern European churches $100 million back in the early 1990s after the fall of Communism.  Quite amazing considering they don't pay their teachers crap and they have more money than Microsoft.  Interestingly I found this out in one of the first few pages of my Accounting I textbook.  When it comes to Church politics and administration, me and Joe Republic have every right to criticize.

You have every right to criticize but it's your stubborness that annoys me. Fact of the matter is that the Church does more than most groups would ever think of doing in terms of charity work and they have every right to keep the gifts that are given.

[Keystone Phil]

There's no need for the hostility.

I'm well aware of the Church's record for widespread charity work, and I have a great deal of respect for it.  My problem is that is millions or dollars' worth of artifacts tied up in the Vatican City.  That money would be incredibly useful for easing widespread hardship and funding more good work to be done.

Also, don't you find it hypocritical for the Pope to denounce materialism when surrounded by such a huge hoard?

He is not being materialistic. If he was going on conquests for fine art, jewelry, etc. then he'd be hypocritical. The Pope is not going out and spending money on himself. He doesn't go on shopping sprees. He doesn't have a desire for big screen TVs, new cars, etc. He understands the true meaning of Christmas and as long as material wealth doesn't overtake him, he has every reason to speak against materialism.

What is given to this Church should stay with this Church. If we didn't do all the charity work that we did then you'd have a point but what is part of our history should stay with us.

[Keystone Phil]

Joe's operating under a few incorrect assumptions.

As most people do when it comes to our faith. We're just big, bad, greedy, child molesting, close minded idiots....who happen to have power and wealth and when we don't give it all away we become hypocrites.

Let's say Joe is a rich man who gives a great amount to charity. He finds himself disgusted by the obsession with material possessions and so he speaks out against it. Now would we expect Joe to give up the stuff that he was given as a gift - Let's say that "sparkly" chair or whatever that has been handed down over the ages - so that he can "do more?" No, we'd never expect that of him but when it comes to the Church...well...anything to get on their case.

[Keystone Phil]

But seriously, Phil (and all the other R.C.'s on this forum), do you believe that in the long run, Vatican II was a mistake? 

Not at all.

Church is out of touch and losing members as is.

Yeah, we won't be offering lap dances in the pews anytime soon so we don't expect your type to return. We have fundamental beliefs and we won't apologize if they're "out of touch" with society.