Italian electoral vandalism referendum

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I have no problems with Italy, though I'm certainly not a fan of certain aspects of the country for a variety of reasons and I'm still dumbfounded at how voters constantly re-elect outright crooks. And yes, they're not normal at having a stupid backwards electoral law. Live with it. But that's another topic. So, yes, I've joked about Italy and you've joked about Brittany. But please dig up a post of mine where I called it an insignificant piece of land or where I've made fun of Italian language and culture. If I've mocked it, it's purely for political reasons.

 
You have no problems with Italy, your past comments weren't insults, etc...and then you go on to insult it.

You say "not normal" isn't an insult...and then call their electoral law "stupid" and "backwards." So is that an insult or what?

Yeah, I can "live with it" because I don't care. I'm not the one who was initially complaining about insults here. Call the system backwards all you want. I'm actually agreeing with you. That being said, don't turn around and say it's not an insult.

I don't get what is so hard to understand here - you mocked Italy in a certain way and I mocked the little chunk of nothing in a certain way. I don't care if you didn't call Italy insignificant. You mocked the country in another way. Again, I really don't care about that either; what I care about is the hypocrisy, asking me to lay off while you do the same.

What's hard to understand in saying that I called your electoral system backwards, but I did not mean or intend to call the whole country backwards. A country with a stupid backwards electoral law does not make a country backwards or stupid. FPTP doesn't make the UK backwards.

Again, I mocked Italy for political reasons. Just as I mock tons of other countries for political reasons. You're not mocking my "little piece of nothing" for political reasons, I'm certain of it. There is a difference between these two types of mockery, one of which shouldn't come off as offensive to a local. One of which doesn't entail calling a country a little chunk of nothing. There's a difference between mocking some place for political reasons and calling it a little chunk of nothing.

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I don't know or, again, care if you hate the country. All I'm saying is that you mocked the country in your own way and want me to "live with it" but you can't seem to live with others mocking Brazacheaugz or whatever. It doesn't work that way, pal. You want to throw an insult? Go ahead. I'm not stopping you or asking you to stop. Just don't flip out when I respond.

I'm slightly offended at your mocking since I know it isn't a joke based on political factors or little voting patterns. Still, if you want to continue going around and responding to the quasi-entirety of my posts with your little joke and Brazacheaugz, go ahead. If you don't like Bretagne, good for you. One less tourist.

I say there's a difference between mocking some place for political/electoral reasons and mocking a place for cultural, linguistic or whatever reasons. If you don't agree with me, that's your issue.

[Хahar 🤔]

Hey, this is stupid. Let's all agree that Italian politics are hilarious and thaat Brazacheaugz is a nice place, OK?

[Keystone Phil]

What's hard to understand in saying that I called your electoral system backwards, but I did not mean or intend to call the whole country backwards. A country with a stupid backwards electoral law does not make a country backwards or stupid. FPTP doesn't make the UK backwards.

Again, I mocked Italy for political reasons. Just as I mock tons of other countries for political reasons. You're not mocking my "little piece of nothing" for political reasons, I'm certain of it. There is a difference between these two types of mockery, one of which shouldn't come off as offensive to a local. One of which doesn't entail calling a country a little chunk of nothing. There's a difference between mocking some place for political reasons and calling it a little chunk of nothing.

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You then go on to mock the people. Please don't try to run from it now. You've claimed that they are backwards because of who they elect.

Your little chunk of land isn't a country and I think that counts as mocking Brazrazhagh for political reasons, too.

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I still don't understand why political "jokes" are ok even when you're clearly hinting that the people are backwards so count that as me being "slightly offended." You can continue to mask your jokes as purely political (not that that makes it better) but it's clear that that is also an attack on the people.

I don't care about the place. I have no plans to ever go there. I only set foot in swine land when I absolutely must for connecting flights.

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And I still don't understand why one is more acceptable than the other. You're mocking the values of the people when you mock them for "political/electoral reasons."

For the final time, attack Italy all you want for whatever the hell you want. I don't care. Just stop whining when someone responds.

[Keystone Phil]

By the way, try spinning this one, PD...

[minionofmidas]

[spin] 78-43 for the Left if you sum them.

[/spin] Restoration of normal service. Disappointing to Berlusconi compared to national polls, not that you should necessarily expect these things to follow national polls.

[Keystone Phil]

[spin] 78-43 for the Left if you sum them.

[/spin] Restoration of normal service. Disappointing to Berlusconi compared to national polls, not that you should necessarily expect these things to follow national polls.

Why would you sum them though?

The actual spin from italian-boy is that 2004 was the "height of Anti Berlusconi-ism" and the results were numerically in the center right's favor because things are beginning to balance out and PD is still in horrible shape on their own.

Whatever the case, the media coverage has been mixed as well. Certain Italian media outlets are claiming it's a victory for Berlusconi.    I've seen other international outlets also claiming it's a victory for the center right. I do think we should have done better though. I want to know what the hell is up in Bari (and Puglia in general). Talk about an area that ought to be solidly in our favor. Then there's Avellino in Campania which also bucked the trend.

I do think the bragging by PD concerning Florence and Bologna is absolutely ridiculous though. Come on now. 

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By the way, try spinning this one, PD...

2004 was an exceptional year for the left (so was 2005). They obviously couldn't hope for a repeat in 2009. And 34-28 isn't that bad for the PD considering how weak it is and how little power it is. These elections have saved the PD from meltdown, as most thought that a PdL landslide would usher in a return to the PDS/Daisy left.

I do think the bragging by PD concerning Florence and Bologna is absolutely ridiculous though. Come on now. 

Well, yeah, obviously. Maybe the PdL could brag that they got the left in a runoff, maybe the left can brag that they ate the PdL alive in runoffs.

Anyways, I need to make a map. Puglia does seem interesting, though it probably doesn't entail the survival of the gay atheist Communist President.

[minionofmidas]

Why would you sum them though?

Because you told me to spin it.

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That's not spin, that's the plain truth. (At least in this millennium and as far as election dates go regarding the 'height of' part.)

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Probably just a competent local administration that people wanted to keep in. Not that I *know*, of course.

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Agreed.

[Keystone Phil]

Because you told me to spin it.

Ok, now that spin is just too insane. 

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Then there's Avellino in Campania which also bucked the trend.

Wait... isn't Avellino the place where the ex-DC parties (PPI and their 6000 other names) used to top the poll even after '94? If so, maybe you're seeing the proof of the trend that Catholic Christiandem voters are becoming disenchanted with Berlusconi due to the prostitute scandal. A trend which was noted in a few places these past few days.

[minionofmidas]

Because you told me to spin it.

Ok, now that spin is just too insane. 

Not sure how many times I've heard lines like "Republicans have won seven of the last 10 presidential elections". Same silliness, same lack of relevance.

[Keystone Phil]

Then there's Avellino in Campania which also bucked the trend.

Wait... isn't Avellino the place where the ex-DC parties (PPI and their 6000 other names) used to top the poll even after '94? If so, maybe you're seeing the proof of the trend that Catholic Christiandem voters are becoming disenchanted with Berlusconi due to the prostitute scandal. A trend which was noted in a few places these past few days.

Eh, maybe that's it. Either way, it's not good.

[Hash]

Then there's Avellino in Campania which also bucked the trend.

Wait... isn't Avellino the place where the ex-DC parties (PPI and their 6000 other names) used to top the poll even after '94? If so, maybe you're seeing the proof of the trend that Catholic Christiandem voters are becoming disenchanted with Berlusconi due to the prostitute scandal. A trend which was noted in a few places these past few days.

Eh, maybe that's it. Either way, it's not good.

The real thing/real deal will be the regionals next year. All regions except Aosta, Trentino-Alto Adige, FVG, Sicily, Abruzzo, Molise and Sardinia vote.

[SPQR]

Yeah,next year regionals will be pretty interesting,also because PD will probably have a new leader after October's Congress(I think/hope former Minister and former Emilia Romagna Governor Bersani).Also,Sardinia,a couple of months after electing the PDL candidate as Governor,swung strongly to the left,with PDL winning only by .3% or something.So,should be interesting.
Anyway,my opinion was already summed up by Phil a few posts early...PD kept pretty well,lost cities and provinces it had miracolously won before,kept those it had to keep and even some that were tougher to keep,like Padova and Bari.It's kind of funny to see PdL so happy for having won Milan's province by 4000 votes(.2%) when it usually votes 55% or more PDL.

[Hash]

Avellino didn't "buck the trend". Bari didn't even vote.

[Keystone Phil]

Avellino didn't "buck the trend". Bari didn't even vote.

What? PD definitely won in those two areas yesterday. What I meant by "buck the trend" is that they are the odd man out in Campania (though I guess "bucking the trend" might not be a smart thing to say since they might have always favored the Left).

[SPQR]

We are confusing cities and provinces here...Bari and Avellino's provinces went to PDL,the cities to PD.

[Keystone Phil]

We are confusing cities and provinces here...Bari and Avellino's provinces went to PDL,the cities to PD.

Ah, ok. Were the city elections for Mayor?

[SPQR]

Yep.

[Kevinstat]

Question 3 would prevent candidates from standing in multiple constituencies, something France and most other normal countries abolished in the 1870s.

Abolished allowing candidates from standing in multiple constituencies, or abolished the ban?  I couldn't tell from what you wrote.

[Hash]

Question 3 would prevent candidates from standing in multiple constituencies, something France and most other normal countries abolished in the 1870s.

Abolished allowing candidates from standing in multiple constituencies, or abolished the ban?  I couldn't tell from what you wrote.

Former.

We are confusing cities and provinces here...Bari and Avellino's provinces went to PDL,the cities to PD.

That must be the confusion. I had assumed this discussion to be on provincials, silly me.