The hypocrisy of liberal tolerance?

[CheeseWhiz]

My problem with the Democratic Parties tolerence:  It's only tolerent towards those who the Republicans are intolerent towards, and vice-versa.  I haven't seen many Democratic Politicians be very tolerent of homeschoolers, and more so unschoolers.  I also see a lot of Democrats who are intolerent of anybody raising their children in way they don't think is conventional.  They also are very intolerent of stay at home moms.  I see your point, but the Democrats are far from being tolerent, and I really don't see how they can claim to be so.

[CheeseWhiz]

My problem with the Democratic Parties tolerence:  It's only tolerent towards those who the Republicans are intolerent towards, and vice-versa.

The main point is just that complaints that Dems are not truly tolerant because they don't tolerate bigotry, etc. are invalid. It's not saying that Democrats are necessarily tolerant toward everything. A true libertarian (there are many conservatives who claim to be libertarians) for example is probably more tolerant than either libs or cons.

Oh, I see.  I didn't really understand that before.

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Unschoolers I'll admit Dems aren't very tolerant of, because we generally see lack of high school education as a bad thing. Homeschoolers though I haven't seen criticism of except from myself-- I used to think homeschooling should be banned, but I was pretty much alone on this and changed my mind later on. I've never heard anyone else say homeschooling was wrong.[/quote]

Not wrong, but they don't trust the parents to take responsibility for their children, with many of the politicians pushing for standard tests and such.

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What do you mean don't think conventional? If you mean teaching them the Bible and religion etc. at homeschool, I haven't seen any Dems say this was wrong (as long as they were still able to meet high school level standards of biology), though if they didn't I'd certainly disagree and I think the vast majority of Dems would agree that this is a perogative of the parents.[/quote]

There are lots of thing some wouldn't see as conventional.  Examples:  Having a big family, not going to school, not going to the doctor, being vegans, etc. etc. etc.  How many of these do you see as wrong?

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Again I've seen a lot more accusations like this than actual Dems saying that it's wrong to be a stay at home mom. It's possible to celebrate women with successful careers as opening doors or breaking the mold without denigrating stay at home moms (or dads).
[/quote]

I'm not talking about all of them, mind you, but look at some of the thing MissCatholic and I think Flyers (I sincerely apologize if it wasn't you that I'm thinking about) have said on the subject.

[CheeseWhiz]

Not wrong, but they don't trust the parents to take responsibility for their children, with many of the politicians pushing for standard tests and such.

If that's the charge then it's true, while I don't see many people opposing home education itself, I can see why people would oppose it if it didn't comply with at least the minimal level of standards that they would get in a public school.

Sometimes, it just doesn’t work like that.  In unschooling, people learn as they wish to, so while they learn to read and write latter than a lot of children, I was learning about politics far before the average student.

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That is true, with the exception of having a big family and being a vegan, not going to the doctor and not going to school can potentially present dilemmas in my view.

In the former case, the dilemma is not with adults but children, who themselves are unable to seek medical treatment without parental support, or may not be considered autonomous enough to make such decisions. If a child is seriously ill, and the parents' beliefs prevent the child from seeking medical attention, risking the child's life, then this presents, in my view, a legitimate ethical clash between the parents' perogative and society's perogative to take care of the child. A similiar type of clash can be found in abusive households.[/quote]

Well, I’m not sure how it would work if the parents made the decision, but I myself have made a decision not to go to Doctors.   If I ever said I needed to go, I’m sure they’d take me, but I’m not going to do that.  I think that if they thought it would help, they’d take them to a doctor, because, as so many seem to forget, parents love their children, far more than society ever will.

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And who gave society the right to raise the child?  My families all been homeschooled, and none of them would have it any other way.  Also, if you’re worried about my family not schooling us properly:  My sister just went to a Realist Art School, where she is becoming one of the very best of her class, and she keeps getting to skip some of the beginning stuff because in homeschool, she didn’t know she wasn’t suppose to learn that yet

[CheeseWhiz]

So was I, abeit in an age of different standards than today, but when you said unschooling, I had just assumed that what you were talking about was the lack of education and learning. In general, I now realize I am unaware of what you mean by the term unschooling as you're using it now.

Sorry, didn’t think about you thinking about it that way

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Of course society is incapable of love, that’s my point.  When things are on a personal level, and you actually know the person that you’re taking care of, everything’s far better.  Society cannot learn each and every person they’re paying taxes to protect, so, while I can see the justification of having these programs, I cannot see them justifying “society” having any say in how that person raises their child.

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Perhaps I did, and I apologize.  Unschooling is the lack of any kind of “school.”  Unschooling understands that all children have a want and a need for information, and will seek it out on their own.  So the parents don’t push them, but rather guide their learning.

And thank you

[CheeseWhiz]

If they believe that a higher power will intercede through the power of prayer and cure their child, who are you, or anybody else for that matter, to say they’re wrong?  I don’t care what the statistics say, and I’d like to know how much higher of a chance it would be if the child did get “treatment” for their illness.  Sometimes, things go beyond human understanding of scientific statistics.

Wanting to kill somebody and just not wanting to save them through medicine are totally different things.

I see your point, but in my mind, the parents usually know what’s best, even if it might not seem that way to some, they know far better than anyone else how to raise their children.

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This would be where you and I disagree.  I find that anyone not wanting to educate themselves aren’t gonna want to get a job, either.

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That’s what the parents are for, to guide them.

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I never argued to abolish all school programs and I certainly did not do so here.  But I think all children are capable of learning by themselves, since all unschooling dictates is to learn in the way the child best sees fit.  Some would be lazy bums, but I don’t think they’re gonna do much with their life when they become 20 or even 30 if they’re to lazy to learn basic skills when they’re 16.  Still, this is all besides the point.