America's Ideology

[opebo]

I voted libertarian, because I have come under the spell of Charles Beard, who believed that the constitution and the bill of rights was essentially an economic document based upon the concept that the "fundamental rights of property are anterior to the government and morally beyond the reach of popular majorities."  That is, US history was a dialectic between the agrarian ideal of Jefferson and the capitalist vision of Hamiloton.  Thus, the pivotal event in the history of the republic, the war of 1861-65, resolves that competition between two irreconcilable economic systems.  Once settled at appomatox, the industrial vortex libertarians were able to prevail over the plantation libertarians, allowing the real winners, the rapacious captains of industry to expand.  Large profits for bankers and arms merchants resulting from the two wars which followed, those of 1898 and 1917, reflected the eagerness to cash in on Europe's misfortunes, was sustainable only so long as the slaughter continues.  All of which suggests our republic is splendidly libertarian in its ideology.  Of course, the key element here is the fact that you say all are "educated"  This is important, as education is simply training, the washing of brains with the proper indoctrinary elixirs.  Sufficiently educated, we will support the Rich upon our backs.  Only in a state of ignorance will man succomb to socialism, but with mandatory schooling for all children from 6 to 17, any socialist revolution is successfully avoided.  I agree that flagburning, gay-repression, and abortion has little or nothing to do anything, and are merely fashionable cocktail-party discussion topics at the moment.  Actually, on reflection I think I agree with Emsworth's last sentence, if I understand it, except that I'd place the emphasis differently. 

What an horrific vision, though alas, mostly accurate.  But in fairness one should substitute 'fascist' for 'libertarian.

It certainly does seem true that the brainwashed masses are prefectly happy to carry their masters, generation after generation.

[opebo]

It never ceases to amaze me the extent to which libertarians seem to believe that the only reason they lose is because they're misunderstood, or because the public is not knowledgable enough, or whatever.

I certainly did not mean to imply any such thing. I was speaking about constitutional issues, not political ones.

You are mistaken there as well, because knowing about your particular constitutional interpretation will not make it any more appealing to most people.  Most people prefer the government programs, Emsworth, and couldn't care less if they're 'constitutional' or not.

[opebo]

But herein lies another mind-boggling paradox:  you cannot have both true libertarianism and one-hundred percent voter participation simultaneously.  The former implies complete freedom, including for those who don't care to vote, while the latter implies a form of authoritarianism.  Once again, any society that accepts this sort of demand will necessarily be more inclined to socialism and other forms of authoritarianism than ours.  Thus the question simply cannot be answered if by "America" you mean the United States of America in its presently-understood incarnation.

The United States is so tremendously far from being libertarian - due to a very high degree of social controls - that your original supposition is false.  I hardly think that in our current Police State the requirement of voting would be very onerous compared to the ban on many drugs and sexual practices.

[opebo]

But herein lies another mind-boggling paradox:  you cannot have both true libertarianism and one-hundred percent voter participation simultaneously.  The former implies complete freedom, including for those who don't care to vote, while the latter implies a form of authoritarianism.  Once again, any society that accepts this sort of demand will necessarily be more inclined to socialism and other forms of authoritarianism than ours.  Thus the question simply cannot be answered if by "America" you mean the United States of America in its presently-understood incarnation.

Where on earth do you get this idea that the United states is a 'libertarian' and not an authoritarian country, angus?  You are already allowed such a small amount of personal freedom in that benighted land that forcing you to vote would be no great impostion.

[opebo]

opebo, I am acutely aware of being slave to at least one, and possibly two, other humans.  You're preaching to the choir.  But I am also aware that this condition is the result of decisions I made willfully and with careful consideration of the consequences of my decisions. 

I wasn't referring to that, angus.  I was referring to the State imposed restrictions on your personal life.

[opebo]

opebo, I know what you were talking about.  I mistakenly thought if I was a smart-alek you'd leave off that anti-US diatribe.  Well, one man's right to swing his fist ends where another man's nose begins.  That's just the way it is.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic in question.  What prudish nose is present when you are smoking pot in your house, or when I am having sex at the short time hotel?  Then answer is, none, and of course, what we are doing is not at all comparable to swinging our fists.