Canada 2011 Official Thread

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why should the NDP even want to merge with the Liberals? I really don't see the logic, not now.

[2952-0-0]

As long as the plurality system exists, the best the NDP can work for is a Britain-style three party system with the middle party having slightly more in common with the left than the right party. But this arrangement would quickly be moot, since the next Liberal-backed NDP government will certainly pursue electoral reform in a genuine (as opposed to half-hearted in the case of Britain) way. Then who knows? The two leading parties could split up leading to six national parties (Greens, CCF-style party, Latte Liberal-style party, centrist Liberals, PC-style party, and Reform-style party).

[Linus Van Pelt]

All these dramatic scenarios strike me as less likely than the Liberals just continuing to exist as a LibDem-like combination of urban moderates and the more traditional parts of the Atlantic, always with a small chance of some time returning to seriousness through either a government getting into a total food fight with its base (either social conservatives or unions) or a national unity crisis caused by one of the two main parties tying itself into knots over Quebec's status.

[cinyc]

The fact is that the NDP is culturally a bad fit. Its not that its Quebec caucus is made up of students, activists, and randoms, its that the party as a whole is identified with groups that a lot of the Liberal electorate does not want representing them even if they agree with them politically. If the Liberals and NDP were to merge while the NDP is artificially inflated by their Quebec win, a party of professionals would be replaced in the Toronto suburbs with a party of inner city activists, and that would be devastating.

Well, if you believe Compas' polling, the NDP itself has been attracting a more educated base than in the past and is less reliant on students, activists and randoms than most think.  That said, there definitely would be blue Liberals who would switch to the Tories should the NDP and Liberals merge, just as some red Tories switched to the Liberals after the Progressive Conservatives merged with the Reform Party to form the current Conservative Party of Canada.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The next four years are going to be interesting for the Greens.  I think their best hope for growth during that time is by picking off blue Liberals who can't stand either the Tories or the NDP.  Probably not a successful hope unless the Liberals fall apart and utterly collapse.

[Dan the Roman]

The fact is that the NDP is culturally a bad fit. Its not that its Quebec caucus is made up of students, activists, and randoms, its that the party as a whole is identified with groups that a lot of the Liberal electorate does not want representing them even if they agree with them politically. If the Liberals and NDP were to merge while the NDP is artificially inflated by their Quebec win, a party of professionals would be replaced in the Toronto suburbs with a party of inner city activists, and that would be devastating.

Well, if you believe Compas' polling, the NDP itself has been attracting a more educated base than in the past and is less reliant on students, activists and randoms than most think.  That said, there definitely would be blue Liberals who would switch to the Tories should the NDP and Liberals merge, just as some red Tories switched to the Liberals after the Progressive Conservatives merged with the Reform Party to form the current Conservative Party of Canada.

But will they stay? The Tories are going to begin hitting the NDP in the next few months, not least because being on the attack 24/7 worked. The attacks will focus on their Quebec caucus, and once the public has its fill of 19 year old MPs collecting $157,000, one's who don't show for work/didn't campaign, secret separatists, I expect the NDP's image to take a bit of a hit in those sectors. If I were Layton, I would restrict interviews with my new MPs for the next six months or so until they can be coached.

The problem though with responding to this line of attack is that it is both true and interesting, and therefore the media will chase these MPs around.

[Foucaulf]

"Entitlement" is taking prominence as an explanation for the Liberals' defeat:

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Yet Silver is wounded, and he lashes out. As soon as he complained about "NDP nonsense on the Constitution", he will make a left-leaning voter stop reading. The Liberals have no time to complain about how much better their policy is compared to others - all policy in opposition are equally fruitless.

It will boil down to an existential crisis for the party, not just an upheaval in structure but an upheaval in class. My advice as a leftist is for Liberals to look at the name of their party, "Liberal" - and look at it hard. What does that mean? "Socially liberal" is inappropriate when three other parties jostle for that label. "Fiscally conservative" is Harper territory for months to come.

One has to use uniquely Western World concepts: negative liberty and the social contract. Humans do not gravitate towards liberty naturally; they will apply coercion for their selfish needs. Liberty from these coercions are not found in nature. Instead, society must unite in contract to protect these liberties - liberties enshrined in Liberal accomplishments such as the Charter and the Welfare State. While the Tories ostracize minorities and the NDP believes negative liberty takes second fiddle to personal security, the Liberals realize the Western state is based on the values only they will stand for. One must not expect the government to be the focus of attention, but instead allow an organic state to grow.

Silver says he will discuss his ideas for the Liberals in the weeks to come. I'll annotate him every step of the way.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How about the German Greens? Have they ever elected someone under the FPTP portion of MMP and if so when?

[Хahar 🤔]

How about the German Greens? Have they ever elected someone under the FPTP portion of MMP and if so when?

There's one constituency in central Berlin that straddles the Wall which elects a Green, I think.

And then of course there's Baden-Württemberg.

[Boris]

Is Elizabeth May the only person who possesses American citizenship in the HoC?

[cinyc]

Is Elizabeth May the only person who possesses American citizenship in the HoC?

In the current Parliament?  Maybe.  It would largely depend on the backgrounds of the new class of Dippers - some of whom are virtual unknowns.  Conservative Diane Ablonczy from Calgary --- Nose Hill was born in Peoria, Illinois, but told the CBC she wasn't a dual citizen of the US. Former Conservative MP Myron Thompson is a US citizen - but he left office in 2008.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Is Elizabeth May the only person who possesses American citizenship in the HoC?

Well that explains her Americanized pronunciation of about. It all makes sense now.

[Meeker]

Three of the new NDP MP's are enrolled students at McGill.

[Foucaulf]

Three of the new NDP MP's are enrolled students at McGill.

Very creative way to cut down their student debt.

Do you think the NDP will make a "MP bail", where they ask their filler MPs to resign and replace them with more qualified candidates in by-elections? If that happens, they'll have to do it quick - I fear Quebecois are shocked at the wave's size and will scrutinize the NDP immediately.

[2952-0-0]

Three of the new NDP MP's are enrolled students at McGill.

Very creative way to cut down their student debt.

Do you think the NDP will make a "MP bail", where they ask their filler MPs to resign and replace them with more qualified candidates in by-elections? If that happens, they'll have to do it quick - I fear Quebecois are shocked at the wave's size and will scrutinize the NDP immediately.

They can't be too blatant, or the NDP will for sure lose those by-elections. But to whom exactly? The Bloc is finished, and neither the Liberals or Conservatives are factors in most of those formerly no-hope seats.

[Хahar 🤔]

Do you think the NDP will make a "MP bail", where they ask their filler MPs to resign and replace them with more qualified candidates in by-elections?

This isn't serious, is it? Of course they won't.

[Meeker]

Three of the new NDP MP's are enrolled students at McGill.

Very creative way to cut down their student debt.

Do you think the NDP will make a "MP bail", where they ask their filler MPs to resign and replace them with more qualified candidates in by-elections? If that happens, they'll have to do it quick - I fear Quebecois are shocked at the wave's size and will scrutinize the NDP immediately.

Nah. These guys won't have to face voters for at least four years; they'll have plenty of time to get their act together.

[Lief 🗽]

Do Canadian MPs really work that little that they can be full time students as well? Presumably the Canadian House of Commons is a little busier than an American state legislature.

[Meeker]

This guy, who beat the Bloc MP in Sherbrooke 43-36, is 19-years-old: http://pierrelucdusseault.ndp.ca/

[Foucaulf]

Do you think the NDP will make a "MP bail", where they ask their filler MPs to resign and replace them with more qualified candidates in by-elections?

This isn't serious, is it? Of course they won't.

There are certainly more absurd ideas being floated around - like Liberals thinking Justin Trudeau would be a great party leader.
But a quick look at the Bloc's 1993 statistic shows a number of ex-professor and ex-business MPs. Quite a bit resigned by '97, so historical precedent works against that proposal.

I'm trying to predict which aspects of the NDP could be used against them, and the Quebec caucus is certainly ripe for scrutiny. What is their greatest weakness: their inexperience? Their spontaneity? Their being "full of communists and separatists"? I certainly don't want the Quebec caucus to become a Conservative talking point, which only further alienates the party where Tory strength is weakest.

[2952-0-0]

Do you think the NDP will make a "MP bail", where they ask their filler MPs to resign and replace them with more qualified candidates in by-elections?

This isn't serious, is it? Of course they won't.

There are certainly more absurd ideas being floated around - like Liberals thinking Justin Trudeau would be a great party leader.
But a quick look at the Bloc's 1993 statistic shows a number of ex-professor and ex-business MPs. Quite a bit resigned by '97, so historical precedent works against that proposal.

I'm trying to predict which aspects of the NDP could be used against them, and the Quebec caucus is certainly ripe for scrutiny. What is their greatest weakness: their inexperience? Their spontaneity? Their being "full of communists and separatists"? I certainly don't want the Quebec caucus to become a Conservative talking point, which only further alienates the party where Tory strength is weakest.

Guaranteed the Conservative Party will make jokes about the Quebec caucus. Layton should be prepared with the comeback that his caucus is full of ordinary Canadians who work real jobs and who know what life really is like instead of lifetime party hacks. Doing so would allow the NDP to slam the Conservatives as being the same as the Liberal Party of Chretien and Martin.

[Joe Republic]

How about the German Greens? Have they ever elected someone under the FPTP portion of MMP and if so when?

Hans-Christian Ströbele was the first (and so far only) person elected to the Bundestag this way, in 2002.

[Insula Dei]

How about the German Greens? Have they ever elected someone under the FPTP portion of MMP and if so when?

There's one constituency in central Berlin that straddles the Wall which elects a Green, I think.

And then of course there's Baden-Württemberg.

Kreuzberg-Friedrichshain (or something like that). Seriously, if you've ever been there you know hy the Greens do so well. The place is 40% hipster/'artist' type and 30% Immigrant.

[minionofmidas]

How about the German Greens? Have they ever elected someone under the FPTP portion of MMP and if so when?

There's one constituency in central Berlin that straddles the Wall which elects a Green, I think.

And then of course there's Baden-Württemberg.

And several in the Berlin state house, for quite a while now.

[tpfkaw]

There was also one on the Boston city council, although he got arrested, lol.