UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[Blair]

People make decisions on this based on what their favourite political actors say; people don’t actually know what this deal is. I’m very much of the view that all Brexit polling is useless.

All they see is Brexit, deal, pass.... of course it doesn’t help that we treat it like a reality TV show with the vote counting.

[Blair]

What the hell is the point of the Letwin amendment anyway?

Honestly, I do not know how the EU has any more damn patience. British politicians are playing games, and it's only because the EU didn't make it clear no further extension would be provided.

Stops us leaving with no deal if the ERG pull some sh**t next week & removes the threat of a no deal being used as a hammer against lab leavers

[Blair]

What the hell is the point of the Letwin amendment anyway?

Honestly, I do not know how the EU has any more damn patience. British politicians are playing games, and it's only because the EU didn't make it clear no further extension would be provided.

Stops us leaving with no deal if the ERG pull some sh**t next week & removes the threat of a no deal being used as a hammer against lab leavers

The threat of no-deal is just what all the UK Politicians need to fall in line. They have been extremely unproductive, wasting everyone's time like it's everyone else's responsibility to wait an eternity for them to finally find a solution.

It's a shame the EU didn't lay out the rules clearer, the only way I would grant an extension now would be if the opposition was able to vote Johnson out.

I don't like the idea of using mass economic chaos and societal panic (the reality of no-deal) to force MPs into accepting a brexit deal that will cause a huge amount of harm to our economy, whilst having no legal guarantees on issues like environmental and workers rights.

I also hate the idea as framing this as a failure of parliament; this is a failure of various actors. In a matter where there is not a black and white option requiring an immediate choice (declare war on Germany, nationalise the banks etc) you can't expect a hung parliament in our system to make such a seismic decision affecting 55% of our trade & our biggest political relationship change since the act of union.

Theresa May used Brexit as a political hammer to beat the Labour party with; rather than turning the result into a chance a chance to do something constructive (back in late 2016) she thought it would give her a 150 seat majority if she accused Labour of hating britain.

She loses her majority & Labour surge in remain seats & yet she continues to push ahead with a brexit deal that only appealed to Tory MPs

Irish Home Rule took decades to resolve, the Good Friday Agreement took years & years, US intervention and two referendums to decide.

[Blair]

I know posters on here hate my opinion but I think I have been validated by this entire process. A presidential system is far better than a parliamentary one . A President would not have been handcuffed by parliament throughout negotiations and trash laws like the Benn act would never have been signed into law without a 2/3 vote.


If their really was a firm threat of No-Deal Brexit, I can bet you the UK gets a much better deal from the EU then they will ever get .

How would President Gary Lineker have made this situation any different?

Did you read any of the posts I & others did about why no deal hurt the U.K. more and also why it was a threat no British government could uphold?

[Blair]

https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1185605845440180231?s=19

Very sceptical of this; there’s 20 anti 2nd ref labour (some may abstain) and still not enough second referendum supporters among the ex Tories.

[Blair]

Given my near breakdown on friday as I watched the votes slip away (it's gonna pass folks- thanks to both Ivan Lewis & John Woodcock being pissed off at Labour over sexual harassment & ex-tory MPs voting like tory MPs) I'm just praying that the WAB will be amended heavily to ensure A.) Parliament has complete control over the next round & I mean legally tight like the Benn Act B.) Sit on some sort of Customs Union.

But god knows how you actually go about making this stuff work legally- it's easy to get a narrow majority for the idea of this Brexit... but not so easy once you start amending.
 

[Blair]

You mean its actually Labour's fault that both Lewis and Woodcock were credibly accused of sexual harassment? The party machinery can be blamed for much, but that - not really.

(what happened to the "fully independent" investigation that the latter promised, btw?)

You're being a bit too eager if you think I was in anyway defending them, or if I was somehow blaming LOTO for them.

Was merely telling people the insane dynamics at play.

[Blair]

Tbf that wasn't clear from the previous post

There's all sorts of this stuff going on with all "sides" at the minute. When the government of the day has a big majority it doesn't matter so much, but right now.......

I don’t want to get sued for libel but yes as seen with the DUP this week will be about the mother of all egos massaging

[Blair]

Lots of people have long thought the PM being able to simply call an election at the time of their own choosing handed them an unfair inbuilt advantage, and so supported fixed terms.

The principle seems to work well in other countries after all, the problems are with our actual act that was passed (and also tbf that nobody foresaw the present state of affairs actually occurring)

The act is really broken... His Govt. does not even have a majority and I don't see how forcing someone to continue governing with a minority is normal in any way...

British politics has turned into the Government proposing something and then having it rejected over and over again.

In normal countries being the Govt. means you have the means to pass what you are working on, not just spinning around in a political circus which is the House of Commons.

The govt have a majority for their domestic legislation & have passed non Brexit bills.

[Blair]

Lots of people have long thought the PM being able to simply call an election at the time of their own choosing handed them an unfair inbuilt advantage, and so supported fixed terms.

The principle seems to work well in other countries after all, the problems are with our actual act that was passed (and also tbf that nobody foresaw the present state of affairs actually occurring)

The act is really broken... His Govt. does not even have a majority and I don't see how forcing someone to continue governing with a minority is normal in any way...

British politics has turned into the Government proposing something and then having it rejected over and over again.

In normal countries being the Govt. means you have the means to pass what you are working on, not just spinning around in a political circus which is the House of Commons.

The govt have a majority for their domestic legislation & have passed non Brexit bills.

Doesn't matter. If they are being denied bills they are proposing, they should have the right to call an election.

If it takes 50+% of votes to pass a no-confidence vote, why wouldn't their 50% be enough to call a new election?

But they’re not are they? They won the second reading of their Brexit deal...

And besides you can trigger an election with 50%; can either repeal the fix terms parliament act or pass a one line bill, or collapse their own govt in a no confidence vote.

They’ve had a month to try all three....

[Blair]

The LibDems and SNP have finally shown their true colors, it seems. They don't give a sh*t about stopping BoJo's hard-Brexit deal, or even about taking No Deal off the table. They'll happily throw all that under the bus and let put a hard-right Tory government in power if that allows them to win a few seats.

What a shameful, disgusting bunch of third-rate hacks. If Remainers really want to put their trust in them, they deserve everything that's coming to them.

No. They actually have principles, and are fighting to ensure the UK never leaves the EU. The real hacks are Labour, who refuse to take a definative position and fight hard to stop the greatest threat to the UK in decades.

This is pretty false from someone who somehow claims to be a blairite (although I remember seeing you advocated getting rid of social housing in the U.K. so....)

Labour MPs have opposed the meaningful votes 4 times, have supported a whole range of amendments that allowed a lot of good stuff to happen and have supported a second referendum. Sure it’s been long, slow and tedious but the PLP has done its job.

In regards to principles The SNP want independence and the Lib Dem’s want a route to relevance; opposing Brexit whilst having an election focused around one benefits both parties hugely.