Opinion of this Quote.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

"The concept "anti-American" is an interesting one. The counterpart is used only in totalitarian states or military dictatorships... Thus, in the old Soviet Union, dissidents were condemned as "anti-Soviet." That's a natural usage among people with deeply rooted totalitarian instincts, which identify state policy with the society, the people, the culture. In contrast, people with even the slightest concept of democracy treat such notions with ridicule and contempt. Suppose someone in Italy who criticizes Italian state policy were condemned as "anti-Italian." It would be regarded as too ridiculous even to merit laughter. Maybe under Mussolini, but surely not otherwise. Actually the concept has earlier origins. It was used in the Bible by King Ahab, the epitome of evil, to condemn those who sought justice as "anti-Israel" ("ocher Yisrael," in the original Hebrew, roughly "hater of Israel," or "disturber of Israel"). His specific target was Elijah."

While me and provider of this quote don't agree on a great deal. I think he's spot on here.

[minionofmidas]

In German, Antideutsch has a clearly defined meaning... although the vast majority of the population are probably not aware that the word exists. And yes, he's onto something there (although the Ahab bit is strange).

[Person Man]

Great Quote. There is such thing as Anti-americanism, but it should only to apply to those who have expressly said that they wanted to abolish the United States.

[Erc]

Unlike most other countries [with the possible exception of the former Soviet Union], "America" has other connotations than simply the country and its government.

Something can be anti-American (or un-American) if it directly opposes the ideas and spirit that America stands for.

[Gabu]

Unlike most other countries [with the possible exception of the former Soviet Union], "America" has other connotations than simply the country and its government.

Something can be anti-American (or un-American) if it directly opposes the ideas and spirit that America stands for.

I've always found the idea rather puzzling that there is an ideal set of traits, opinions, and desires that one ought to hold purely by virtue of having been born within a set of rather arbitrary borders, but I suppose that might come with not being American.

[Person Man]

I would say that being generally against American interests or rejecting inherently American values is "Un-American". Though, I shall say that I was thinking that because America isn't really a cultural or a traditional nation, and more of an artificial state based on liberal(liberal as opposed to feudalism) ideology, "Anti-American" is slightly less profane than say, "Anti-German" or "Anti-Israeli".

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This is one of the few threads that I wish dazzleman was still around to reply to, since he threw that term at everything he didn't like and constantly made blanket claims like "Liberals are anti-American and support everything that's anti-American"

[Gustaf]

I think whoever this is is kind of missing the point. Anti-Americanism isn't a slander term flinged around by pseudo-fascist conservatives in the United States, it's a rather peculiar mind-set which is very common on the left all over the world. The idea that America embodies certain values or traits, to use Gabu's terms, isn't something the Republicans made up. It's an essential part of the anti-American worldview; most of the evil in the world stems from America, which is an empire of evil which aspires to world domination, Americans are fat, stupid bigots, etc, etc.

I understand that an American who voices criticism of American foreign policy and is told by his countryment that he is being anti-American might getting frustrated. But I live in a country where I encounter anti-Americanism on a daily basis and it's not just a right-wing propaganda thing. It is real and pretty warped. Just look at the reactions to the Iraq war when it broke out. No one in their right mind could seriously view the Iraq war as the greatest atrocity of our times. No one gave a damn about Iraqi civilians as long as they were killed by Saddam Hussein. No one gave a damn about the countless illegal wars for dark purposes being fought all over the world. Yet thousands of people cared about this, of all things. The list of such examples is almost endless. The Swedish left has supported fascist regimes in Argentina, Serbia and Iraq, to name just a few, driven by their hatred for America. One prominent spokesman for the Swedish socialists thought it was legitimate for Iraqi insurgents to gun down Red Cross workers. Those kind of things do not occur unless the US is involved, plain and simple.

This is not to say that the US should never be criticized, but I don't really see it as a problem. After all, most European countries don't even produce as much anti-Americanism as America does. If we compare self-criticism it becomes so ridiculous it's absurd. Something similar to Michael Moore movies would never be produced in Sweden and equivalent products would of course never be successful if they concerned another country. The notion of going to the cinema to laugh at another country would seem both bigoted and kind of strange if that country wasn't America.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How the hell are Michael Moore movies anti-American? Only idiot conservatives like dazzleman make such claims.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

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Oh I certainly know this to be true. But I was mainly referring to the "conservatives" on this site who see dissent as "OMG ANTI-AMERIKKKA WHY DO YOU HATE TEH TROOPS!111".

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Even with that valid point made, the post still looks ridiculous by jumping into that way of conservative thinking with Michael Moore movies mentioned as an example of domestic anti-Americanism.

[opebo]

I find the term 'un-american' more sinister than 'anti-american'.  Of course reasonable people are against the empire.

[Gustaf]

Even with that valid point made, the post still looks ridiculous by jumping into that way of conservative thinking with Michael Moore movies mentioned as an example of domestic anti-Americanism.

Um...have you actually watched Moore-movies? You may not get this as an American but the way he portrays the out-side world is completely ridiculous. His point is always "America suck, the rest of the world is great. OMG, look at Cuba their health-care is wonderful. Look, at Europe (which is btw pretty much one country with one culture) their health-care has no problems" I mean, sure, America has obvious health-care issues but Sweden has had a drawn-out debate on what to do with our enormous health-care problems. Besides, if you could read you would know that I never said Moore was anti-American, I said he criticizes America. Even you cannot deny the truth in that.

[minionofmidas]

Even with that valid point made, the post still looks ridiculous by jumping into that way of conservative thinking with Michael Moore movies mentioned as an example of domestic anti-Americanism.

Um...have you actually watched Moore-movies? You may not get this as an American but the way he portrays the out-side world is completely ridiculous. His point is always "America suck, the rest of the world is great. OMG, look at Cuba their health-care is wonderful. Look, at Europe (which is btw pretty much one country with one culture) their health-care has no problems"

In other words, he's as American as apple pie.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Even with that valid point made, the post still looks ridiculous by jumping into that way of conservative thinking with Michael Moore movies mentioned as an example of domestic anti-Americanism.

Um...have you actually watched Moore-movies? You may not get this as an American but the way he portrays the out-side world is completely ridiculous. His point is always "America suck, the rest of the world is great. OMG, look at Cuba their health-care is wonderful. Look, at Europe (which is btw pretty much one country with one culture) their health-care has no problems"

In other words, he's as American as apple pie.

Reminds me of the fact that all that snobbish rubbish written about America and Americans by British authors in the 19th century sold often sold better in America than over here.

[Gustaf]

Even with that valid point made, the post still looks ridiculous by jumping into that way of conservative thinking with Michael Moore movies mentioned as an example of domestic anti-Americanism.

Um...have you actually watched Moore-movies? You may not get this as an American but the way he portrays the out-side world is completely ridiculous. His point is always "America suck, the rest of the world is great. OMG, look at Cuba their health-care is wonderful. Look, at Europe (which is btw pretty much one country with one culture) their health-care has no problems"

In other words, he's as American as apple pie.

Yes, that was part of my point?

[Silent Hunter]

There's a difference between criticising a country's foreign policy or its system of government and actively wishing for it to suffer.

There's also a lot of double standards vis criticism of the USA. For example, condemning the actions of Saudi Arabia, but not Burma.