Elections in Cataluña/Catalonia 27 September

[politicus]

Well, we have a Spanish Elections and Politics thread for all the Spanish elections. Thats why you haven't seen a special thread.

[politicus]

Yes, I saw that general thread. That thread does not have much movement. In my opinion, each election has its own entity (as there are special threads for Scotland or the Faroe, beyond UK or Denmark). Particularly taking into account that the focus of these elections are the independence of Catalonia.

That is up to the posters: We have national threads on the board for Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Netherlands, Italy and Spain. So Spain is not alone and not the biggest country having one. It is typically done for countries with a federal system or autonomous regions and therefore many elections.

[politicus]

@andi: Apart from it being a wealthy net contributing region (which is of course important), what is the point of trying to keep Catalonia in Spain? They aren't really Spaniards in any meaningful sense (and will probably eventually leave anyway), wouldn't it be better just to divorce now in an amiable way and then cooperate based on two different, but kindred nations?

[politicus]

@andi: Apart from it being a wealthy net contributing region (which is of course important), what is the point of trying to keep Catalonia in Spain? They aren't really Spaniards in any meaningful sense (and will probably eventually leave anyway), wouldn't it be better just to divorce now in an amiable way and then cooperate based on two different, but kindred nations?

My opinion is that the sentence in bold letters is false from several points of view. You should make clear what means being Spaniard in your view, or at least consider what is the origin of Spain as political entity.

Said this, I don't think the political entities called "nation-states" are built to last forever.

I was more interested in hearing your reasons than entering into a long discussion of definitions (which is always tiresome and unproductive).

I am familiar with the formation of the Spanish state, but fail to see the idea in clinging on to the non-Castillian speaking parts of it (well, at least Catalonia and the Basque provinces) from a non-Conservative POV. It gives a better tax base, but seems only to offer a constant derail from progressive causes.

[politicus]

The expression "Catalans are not Spaniards in any meaningful sense" is very unfortunate.

They are Spaniards, as Spaniard as Andalusians, Basques or Valencians. They are not Castilians but identifying Castile with Spain is not accurate (even if some conservatives would like it)

Scottish are not English but they are certainly Brittish. The same here.

Well, sure, but the interesting issue is whether this definition of Spain is helpful for Spanish progressives, since it is likely a lost battle. And just as English leftists can use an enormous amount of energy trying to keep Scotland in the union, so can the Spanish left with Catalonia and the Basque provinces. With the establishment of the EU the temptation to break free of old "imperial" states has increased for minority nations in Europe, and that is only natural. Many are too small, divided or assimilated, but some like Scotland and Catalonia are still viable entities with a clear separate identity. Both Spain and Britain are countries dominated by one nation at the expense of others, which is likely not a sensible way to organize things in the modern world, and not easy to change despite widespread autonomy.

In Britain the English left has a very clear motivation in keeping Scotland in the union to make it easier to avoid Conservative governments, but this isn't really the case in Spain. So I just see it as a strategic mistake to use political capital in trying to preserve an old "imperial" state construction, even if this can be defended as multiculturalism in a modern context. Britain and Spain were not constructed because the English and Castilian felt multiculturalism was a good and mutually enriching thing, but as extensions of the power of a strong people over their weaker neighbours. Defending old historical unions is natural for Conservatives, but hardly a natural project for the left.

[politicus]

99,75% counted

Candidatures   Vots   Diputats      
JxSí   1.617.644   39,55%   62               
C's   733.014   17,92%   25   
PSC   520.757   12,73%   16   
CatSíPot 365.405 8,93%   11               
PP   347.682   8,50%   11   
CUP   335.727   8,21%   10

47,76% pro-independence - 72 seats

[politicus]

The maps will be very interesting, especially considering the theories about the rural vote being worth double that of Barcelona and Girona.

This is by no means a mandate for unilateral independence though. JxSi basically campaigned as the official Yes vote. Counting on the CUP to bolster your parliamentary majority is not going to happen, and counting on them for the popular vote says 48% voted yes. Then you have to factor in the CUP's socio-economic platform attracting hardline socialists who view independence as a secondary objective or as a stepping stone to global revolution. Why are the papers saying the opposite is true?

It is a better story.

[politicus]

99.97% now. 47.75% pro-independence (unless some of the four parties below 1% are pro as well?)

JxSí   1.620.697   39,54%   62   ("new")            
C's   734.538   17,92%   25   +16
PSC   521.916   12,73%   16   -4
CatSíPot   366.274   8,94%   +11 (new)               
PP   348.350   8,50%   11   -8
CUP   336.292   8,21%   10   +7   
-----------------------------------------
UDC   102.835   2,51%                  
PACMA   29.771   0,73%         
RECORTES CERO-ELS VERDS   14.388   0,35%                  
GANEMOS   1.158   0,03%                  
PIRATA.CAT/XDT   326   0,01%