MA: Mideast Budget 2012 (Statute)

[Talleyrand]

I would prefer about a 10% increase to the regional sales tax, bringing it to about 6.3%, but I can settle with 6%.

Assemblyman Gass3268 and Mr. X, what are some specific changes in the corporate and income tax rates you support? I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I would support the status quo over dramatic tax hikes. I would also like to see any changes in the bracket system you support.

[Talleyrand]

I would prefer about a 10% increase to the regional sales tax, bringing it to about 6.3%, but I can settle with 6%.

Assemblyman Gass3268 and Mr. X, what are some specific changes in the corporate and income tax rates you support? I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I would support the status quo over dramatic tax hikes. I would also like to see any changes in the bracket system you support.

I will get back to you on this Monday or Tuesday, Assemblyman TexasDem

Thank you. I look forward to hearing your suggestions.

[Talleyrand]

Governor Tmthforu94, would you be willing to support a further increase in the sales tax to 6.3%?

[Talleyrand]

Governor Tmthforu94, would you be willing to support a further increase in the sales tax to 6.3%?

Well personally, I'd put it at 7%, as that's what I'm used to here in Indiana.

I'm fine with that; in fact I'd prefer it over 5.7, 6, or 6.3%. I just thought 6.3 would be more acceptable to most of my fellow assemblymen, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[Talleyrand]

I would prefer about a 10% increase to the regional sales tax, bringing it to about 6.3%, but I can settle with 6%.

Assemblyman Gass3268 and Mr. X, what are some specific changes in the corporate and income tax rates you support? I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I would support the status quo over dramatic tax hikes. I would also like to see any changes in the bracket system you support.

These are my proposed rates (I decided against creating any new brackets, although I would not be opposed to this, I doubt that it can make it through the Assembly):

Actual Rates (proposed rates) (% Increase)
 

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000 (0%) (0%)
1%    $13,001 - $40,000 (1%) (0%)
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000 (2%) (.5%)
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000 (3.5%) (1.3%)
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000 (5.5%) (2.8%)
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000 (6.5%) (3.25%)
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000 (7.5%) (3.5%)
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999 (8.5%) (3.5%)
6.5%   $10,000,000+ (9.75%) (3.75%)
1.5%   Employer conributions to pensions

Corporate Tax Rate:

0%    $0 - $50,000 (0%) (0%)
0.5%    $50,001 - $75,000 (0.5%) (0%)
1%    $75,001 - $125,000 (1.2%) (.2%)
1.5%    $125,001 - $350,000 (1.8%) (.3%)
2%    $350,001 - $1,000,000 (2.5%) (.5%)
2.5%    $1,000,001 - $10,000,000 (3.25%) (.75%)
3.25%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000 (4.5%) (1.25%)
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000 (5.5%) (1.5%)
5%   $70,000,001+ (6.5%) (1.5%)

Thoughts?

I'm with you on corporate tax rates, but I'd prefer slightly lower income taxes, such as the following I'd like to propose.

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000 (0%) (0%)
1%    $13,001 - $40,000 (1%) (0%)
1.5%    $40,001 - $100,000 (2%) (.5%)
2.2%    $100,001 - $180,000 (3%) (1%)
2.7%    $180,001 - $300,000 (4.5%) (1.5%)
3.25%    $300,001 - $750,000 (5%) (1.75%)
4%    $750,001 - $2,750,000 (6%) (2%)
5%    $2,750,001- $9,999,999 (7.5%) (2.5%)
6.5%   $10,000,000+ (9.5%) (3%)
1.5%   Employer contributions to pensions

[Talleyrand]

Income Tax Rate:
1.5%    $0 - $13,000
3%    $13,001 - $180,000
4%    $180,001 - $750,000
5%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
6%   $2,750,001+
1.5%   Employer contributions to pensions

Corporate Tax Rate:

0.5%    $0 - $75,000  
1.5%    $75,001 - $350,000
3%    $350,001 - $10,000,000
3.5%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Would these proposals be acceptable?

[Talleyrand]

Income Tax Rate:
1.5%    $0 - $13,000
3%    $13,001 - $180,000
4%    $180,001 - $750,000
5%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
6%   $2,750,001+
1.5%   Employer contributions to pensions

Corporate Tax Rate:

0.5%    $0 - $75,000  
1.5%    $75,001 - $350,000
3%    $350,001 - $10,000,000
3.5%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Would these proposals be acceptable?

No.  No.  No.  No.  No.  No.  We need a FLAT tax rate.  That's the only thing that will balance this budget.  And we can set it at 5 or 6% and be good.

I would like at least two to four brackets, even if the main rates vary around 5 or 6%. People with millions have much more discretionary income than those making in the tens of thousand only, and therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to pay a higher tax burden than the less wealthy.

Income Tax Rate:
1.5%    $0 - $50,000
3%    $50,001 - $180,000

That's what I meant to put for those two brackets. D:

[Talleyrand]

I will not be supporting a flat tax. While I can accept reducing the amount of brackets, and allowing some increases on lower and middle income citizens to reduce the discrepancies in the tax rates, a progressive taxation system should remain, in some form.

We could potentially base tax rates per bracket around 4-7% for all groups each besides those making below $50,000 or lower as an acceptable compromise. I do want to see a budget passed, preferably balanced, but a concession of the magnitude the Speaker would like is unacceptable.

[Talleyrand]

Here is another proposal, removing one bracket, and changing the income tax rates slightly.

Income Tax Rate:
2%    $0 - $50,000
4.25%    $50,001 - $180,000
5.5%    $180,001 - $999,999
7%   $1,000,000+
1.5%   Employer contributions to pensions

Corporate Tax Rate:

0.5%    $0 - $75,000  
1.5%    $75,001 - $350,000
3%    $350,001 - $10,000,000
3.5%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

Thoughts? Ideas? Proposed changes?

What's clear is that neither a flat tax (supported by the Speaker, Governor, and Assemblyman 20RP12) or progressive system with more than four/five brackets (supported by Assemblyman Gass3268, Assemblyman Mr. X, and myself) can be enacted, so I hope this proposal, or the one I suggested earlier can be a sort of foundation for a middle ground.

Income Tax Rate:
1.5%    $0 - $50,000
3%    $50,001 - $180,000
4%    $180,001 - $750,000
5%    $750,001 - $2,750,000
6%   $2,750,001+
1.5%   Employer contributions to pensions

Corporate Tax Rate:

0.5%    $0 - $75,000  
1.5%    $75,001 - $350,000
3%    $350,001 - $10,000,000
3.5%    $10,000,001 - $20,000,000
4%    $20,000,001-$70,000,000
5%   $70,000,001+

[Talleyrand]

I'm going to introduce my proposal, which originally had bi-partisan support until someone backtracked. Hopefully we can try and work with it, making small changes to find something acceptable to both sides.

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
3%    $13,001 - $250,000
5%    $250,001 - $1,000,000
7%    $1,000,001+

I'd personally rather do the income tax, see how much that cuts the deficit, then do the corporate tax instead of doing both at the same time.

 

I'd much prefer the rates and brackets that Assemblyman TexasDem suggested.  But I would be willing to wait on the corporate tax (and probably accept smaller increases there) if you'd agree to TexasDem's proposal for the regional income tax.  Since TexasDem listed two proposals, this is the one I am referring to:

Income Tax Rate:
2%    $0 - $50,000
4.25%    $50,001 - $180,000
5.5%    $180,001 - $999,999
7%   $1,000,000+
1.5%   Employer contributions to pensions

The Governor's proposal is a big step in the right direction, but I still feel I'd be giving up a little more ground than I'm comfortable with by supporting it.

I'm with Assemblyman Mr. X on this one, but we can reconcile the two proposals to some extent if mine is unacceptable to the Governor.

[Talleyrand]

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
3%    $13,001 - $250,000
5%    $250,001 - $999,999
7%    $1,000,000-$10,000,000
9%    $10,000,001+

As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates.  The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with.  This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support!  Thoughts?

Can we change these two brackets to the following?

3%    $13,001 - $175,000
5%    $175,001 - $999,999

[Talleyrand]

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
3%    $13,001 - $250,000
5%    $250,001 - $999,999
7%    $1,000,000-$10,000,000
9%    $10,000,001+

As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates.  The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with.  This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support!  Thoughts?

Can we change these two brackets to the following?

3%    $13,001 - $175,000
5%    $175,001 - $999,999

I am fine with that if we can get the Governor to support it.

I'm pleased to see that we are approaching a compromise.

[Talleyrand]

Income Tax Rate:
0%    $0 - $13,000
3%    $13,001 - $250,000
5%    $250,001 - $999,999
7%    $1,000,000-$10,000,000
9%    $10,000,001+

As Assemblyman TexasDem wisely noted, neither side has enough votes to pass their ideal regional income tax rates.  The important thing is not to seek the rates we would pick were it up to us alone, but ones that we can live with.  This is a compromise that I can live with and one that I would urge both the Governor and my friends and colleagues in the Assembly to support!  Thoughts?

Can we change these two brackets to the following?

3%    $13,001 - $175,000
5%    $175,001 - $999,999

I am fine with that if we can get the Governor to support it.

I'm pleased to see that we are approaching a compromise.

Indeed.  If that change were made would you support this?

Yes, while it's not perfect, I would satisfied with the compromise.

[Talleyrand]

The original compromise was enough of a stretch for me - I can't support the proposed amendment to it.

If I changed the proposed cutoff to $200,000, would you be willing to support it?

[Talleyrand]

The original compromise was enough of a stretch for me - I can't support the proposed amendment to it.

If I changed the proposed cutoff to $200,000, would you be willing to support it?

Again, I'm fine with this, but I don't think we should let this become a give an-inch-take-a-yard situation (or at least feel like one to the Governor).  The original compromise may be about the only thing that can both get through the legislature and get Governor Tmthforu94's support (remember, he could always veto the budget).  Better to have 50% of something than 100% of nothing.  Maybe Governor Tmthforu94 might consider $225,000 as a cut-off, but if not, I think this is about as good as we'll get.

After speaking with the Governor, I have decided to go ahead and support the original compromise at this time. I do not believe this change is big enough for me to vote against the bill, and our region deserves a budget passed. Nevertheless, I am not displeased with this compromise, and remain glad that we have been able to finally form a clear path for the most important duty of the assembly- passing the budget.

[Talleyrand]

What do people think about basing the income tax rates on a real life state from the region? If you want to be able to see estimates from me without a very long wait, that'd be the way to do it.

Oh hey - like a flat tax rate?  Just like I've been saying.

I still would not support a flat tax.  Plus, I think my amendment/proposal is a better solution

I agree with Mr. X. But some states have decent, while not extreme progressive rates in the region- like Maryland, Ohio, and Wisconsin.

[Talleyrand]

the gas and diesel tax revenue increases from 3.1 billion to 17.5 billion (14.4 billion increase). However, revenue from other sources can be expected to decrease by about 900 million due to lower consumer spending on other products. So, net increase of 13.5 billion.

This was the bill with gas at 45 cents and diesel at 50 cents, right? Either way, I'm very happy with this result.

[Talleyrand]

AYE

[Talleyrand]

This is a great step for our region. I am so glad to have been part of it.

[Talleyrand]

AYE