Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem

[Badger]

Donald Trump is a fascist piece of s**t for saying that they should be fired. I suddenly have the urge to go burn the American flag.

They're all anti-American.

See...the reason I hate liberals is that the only thing they like about America is the right America gives them to say how much they don't like America.

Aaaaaand Naso plays the douche card right on schedule.

[Badger]

I cannot see how anyone can possibly deny the fact Donald Trump is a fascist...

I'd love to see you say this in front of a bonafide Auschwitz survivor.

In a f!&king heartbeat. 

And if they were old enough to actually remember kristallnacht and the months leading up to it, they would probably agree

[Badger]

Trump is more upset about this topic then a skinheadcramming his car into peaceful protestors and killing someone. Let that sink in

Sums it up

[Badger]

Somehow I feel like the free speech brigade will have a lot less to say about this

I haven't seen the right attack Caepernick's right to do what he did, but rather defend the NFL's right to effectively blacklist him. Free speech has consequences that can't be regulated. No one forced Collin Caepernick to make himself toxic.

You really don't understand how literally mccarthyist that is? I mean, as in a literal definition?

[Badger]

Somehow I feel like the free speech brigade will have a lot less to say about this

I haven't seen the right attack Caepernick's right to do what he did, but rather defend the NFL's right to effectively blacklist him. Free speech has consequences that can't be regulated. No one forced Collin Caepernick to make himself toxic.

You really don't understand how literally mccarthyist that is? I mean, as in a literal definition?

So, the League shouldn't look out for their own interests and then piss on their fans? Sounds like a good business model to me!

Yes, anyone who's considered a communist supported by hard right Wingers should likewise be drummed out of Hollywood end the, journalism, it cetera. Amarite?

Kind of ironic giving it not ours after you posted this your furor tweeted about how NFL's business suffer because they didn't pay him enough respect. This has nothing to do with business bottles or the bottom line, Sanchez. It's 100% about me and baby once again rallying his Stormtroopers to take it out on anyone who doesn't show sufficient kowtow respect.

[Badger]

Trump is more upset about this topic then a skinheadcramming his car into peaceful protestors and killing someone. Let that sink in

Sums it up

I don't believe this is the case, but Trump has not prevented this from appearing to be the case to some.  He really doesn't need to talk about this issue at rallies, and I've got to admit that I'm amazed that he can't see how tone deaf he is on these issues.

Kaepernick is an idiot; he's been hoodwinked by his anti-American girlfriend into becoming an SJW on steroids.  He doesn't have a job for one reason; he's not good enough to be the guy who's the focus of media attention on his team.  And that's something he did to himself. 

I don't much care one way or the other what Kaepernick, or any other jock, does for the Anthem, but I know the owners care and I know the fans care.  I'm not a big fan of the idea of creating opportunities for people to stand for anthems, say the Pledge of Allegiance just so someone hosting an event can appear patriotic, but the National Anthem is a long-held feature of sporting events in America.  Most fans are fine with it, and most fans are not fine with folks taking a knee, especially when it's mixed with the "America is racist!" rhetoric that is grossly unfair to the vast majority of Americans. 

The biggest fault I find with what Kaepernick is doing is that if I'm not going to just write him off as flat-out anti-American and take him seriously, I can't avoid the fact that his gesture is taking his anger out on the wrong folks.  If his beef is with police and law enforcement, than why is he kneeling for a gesture that, in no small measure, is a gesture of honor for our military?  The military is the most thoroughly integrated institution in America, and the vast majority of football fans are either veterans or folks with vets as a family member; could he not see what a slap his actions are to those folks?  Kaepernick sympathizes with folks who don't want to have to look at the disrespectful Confederate monuments, and he has a point, but folks who come to football stadiums or pay for cable TV have to watch his offensive gesture in a situation where folks want a respite for all that.

And, yes, owners have every right to fire someone for kneeling if it's in their contracts.  And, yes, owners have the right to expect players to adhere to standards of conduct.  Going on a talk show and discussing police brutality on your time is one thing; creating a situation that makes uncomfortable paying customers is another.  That's not "free speech"; that's offensive conduct.  Kaepernick isn't out of a job for the views he holds; he's out of a job for diminishing his employers' product while lacking the judgment to recognize that this was what he was doing.



 

I largely agree, FB. Fwiw

[Badger]

I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

MODERATE COMPROMISE!!

"By all means you should feel free to protest, but make sure you are hidden away so no one can see you..."

That's the whole point , as the on field protest  is causing major problems for the NFL and they need to move on from this issue asap .

Outside of angry internet commenters, not really.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games

 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/petition-calls-nfl-boycott-if-kaepernick-doesn-t-play-n790866

Does an employee of a private concern have the right, on the job, to act in a manner where their on-the-job conduct will be viewed as offensive by most customers?  

Kaepernick's gesture is a statement to everyone watching that "America is Racist".  This is rightfully offensive to millions of Americans, most of whom are not racist, and most of whom believe that America is not only a GREAT nation, but a GOOD nation as well.

America is not a PERFECT nation, but it is a more INTROSPECTIVE nation than any other I can think of.  I don't see Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mexico, El Salvador, Cuba, China, Russia, et al, as being places where national leaders ponder seriously how they treat their own.  America DOES do that.  

The problems Mr. Kaepernick professes to be an expert on are problems in America; in other places, they are a way of life.  They are problems, to be sure, but the rates of crime among blacks, relative to the rest of the population is a problem as well.  And the Kaepernicks of the world never acknowledge the false narratives; the "Hands up!  Don't shoot!" falsehood of Ferguson, MO, which began with witnesses willingly lying, is never mentioned by Kaepernick.  The fact that Michael Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery is never mentioned by Kaepernick.  The fact that Michael Brown failed to comply with the LAWFUL instructions of a police officcer is never mentioned by Kaepernick.  The aspect of Mr. Kaepernick that offends me is not his positions or his kneeling; it's his crass intellectual dishonesty on such a divisive issue.

Indeed, introspection is perhaps the greatest American strength in politics. Or at least it used to be.

[Badger]

Steelers Staying in the locker room for the anthem.

Will their rapist QB be leading the moment of silence?

Alleged rapist, thank you.

[Badger]

Steelers Staying in the locker room for the anthem.

Whoa! Chips are down for Grumps to pick a side here.

[Badger]

This is actually a smart play by Trump to the largest demographic in the Republican party: Sh**ty old men who get mad at what they see on TV all day.

I think you just defined our Atlas member, Grumps.

Now now. Grumps gets mad at things on the internet as well.

[Badger]

Can we all call this what it is?  False outrage.  Trump is blowing this up right before the latest attempt at health care repeal is blowing up.  So he will make a stink with the NFL to distract the press coverage.

Why aren't people outraged when some drunken fans yells out during the anthem?  Why are concessions stands and ticket takers allowed to continue working during the anthem?  Why aren't we upset about the fans walking around the concourse during the anthem?

This is total nonsense and false outrage.

In fairness, most fans do thank the drunk shouting fan is an a******. The difference is they hold their players to him far far higher standard, and rightfully so, then some random drunken dip s*** in the stands

[Badger]

No one forced Collin Caepernick to make himself toxic.

I'm still not seeing how what Kaepernick did was so toxic, but the NFL and it's fans have absolutely no problem with this:

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/arrests/

Still sounds like there are significantly more important things to be worried about when it comes to who should be allowed to keep their jobs.

I personally don't have a problem with what Kaepernick did, but I do know that every single NFL fan I know bar one is extremely angry with him. I'm curious to know how many of them are going to quit watching football period after today.

The key phrase here being that you know. In between getting blood stains off the Doc Martens and getting their new red laces replaced, I'm sure they are very devout NFL fans indeed.

[Badger]

I never stand for the anthem for a variety of reasons one mainly being the countries views on Arabs and Muslims. And guess what, it's perfectly my right as an American to do that. It's not unamerican as the TRIGGERED right claims it is.

I do not see a problem with NFL players kneeling either. It's another false outrage the President and the right have.

Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11.  And many Arab Muslims in America, at a minimum, have a degree of sympathy for Islamic Jihadists.  Given the hostility these nations have toward Israel, why should it be shocking that American citizens have the attitudes some of them have toward Arab Muslims?  Should it be considered unreasonable that American citizens may have doubts as to whether or not Arab Muslims have the same loyalty to America, right or wrong, that they have?

I'll agree that there's false outrage.  But why shouldn't I question the loyalty to America someone who refuses to stand for the Anthem out of loyalty to their country of origin and a grudge against American citizens who support, say, Trump's immigration ban?  Is America YOUR country?  Or is it just where you live?  

That's a real important question because we are NOT a nation bound by "blood and soil" as most nations of the world are.  If we are a nation where significant blocs of its CITIZENS have divided loyalties, let alone a primary loyalty to another nation, ethnic group, religious sect, etc, than what becomes of our experiment in self-government?  How can America function as a nation when one group or another are preoccupied with its ethnic and racial grievances (however justified) to the point where their loyalty to America is conditional?  What one has a right to do or not do is an entirely different question than the question of what attitudes on the part of American citizens are necessary in order for our continuing experiment in self-government and individual liberty to be successful.  When I was young, I thought this unimportant; even authoritarian, but as history has unfolded, I recognize that for America to work, its citizens have to be committed to its success, even over the perceived interest of their own groups of which they consider themselves members of.  

Fuzzy bear, with all deference to your later post about your churches working with other Christian congregations various ethnicities and races, and the really good posts you made earlier today, is diatribe about Islam it's just plain ignorance and soft bigotry personified. As in you'll never throw a rock through mosque I'm sure, but you'll happily nod your head when you read news reports of them being rounded up for camps. Which is only a scintilla better

[Badger]

The anthem shouldn't be played at any sporting event period. It's ridiculous that it even happens frankly.

Nonesense, IMHO. God Bless America.

[Badger]

It's neat how this is a reverse of the usual "But that's why Trump won" argument.

"If you wern't being such thin-skinned snowflakes, we would never have kneeled during the anthem!"

Also:

Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11.  And many Arab Muslims in America, at a minimum, have a degree of sympathy for Islamic Jihadists.

WTF? What you said was basically what many Americans believed about Japanese-Americans before the government forced them into internment camps.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

26% of younger American Muslims believe suicide bombings are justified.  (Pew Research)

19% of American Muslims believe violence is justified in attempts to establish Sharia Law.  (Pew  Research)

20% of American Muslims believe violence is justified to advance the cause of Islam.  (Pew Research)

33% of American Muslims believe Sharia Law should be superior to the Constitution.  (CSP Poll)

49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first", 26% American first.  (Pew Research)

21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.  (Pew Research)

This is from polls conducted by public research firms, not information from conversations with Trump Rally attendees.  

FB, here's a pro tip. Don't take your stats for me website specifically drawn up to explain why Muslims are in fact the exception rule for peaceful religions and why they should be kept out. They just might be a Teensy bit slanted.

Go ahead and Google Pew research views American Muslims. Just in the last 2 months you'll find some of the following

If memory serves, 84% of American Muslims believe it is wrong to kill civilians to advance a political government goal. That compares to only approximately 67% of non Muslim Americans. In other words good old Americans like you and me, FB, are willing to accept collateral damage from drone strikes and bombing raids at a much higher rate than Muslim Americans are willing to tolerate suicide bombers.

A majority of American Muslims believe that the teachings of the Koran must be reinterpreted 4 modern day circumstances. Kind of ironic that you're willing to both impose the worst versions of a littlest interpretation of the Bible on secular society, just as you're willing to and turf with the worst verses of the Quran strictly against Muslim Americans to a degree that even they do not.

The percentage of American Muslims who believe that more than one version or teaching of Islam is acceptable as a post only the traditional interpretation of Islam is comprable to the same percentage of American Christians who believe the same, in the low 60 percentile range. Again, rather ironic considering you are in the minority there as well.

Finally, 92%-- let that number sink in-- 92% of American Muslims say they are proud to be American. Given all the shenanigans going on with the various sports teams protests, I wouldn't be surprised that number was lower among the non-muslim American population.

Again, choose your statistics source from a more legit vendor. It might actually change your views

[Badger]

Liberals seem to think the divisions are white people who are also not kneeling. In other words, in mainstream white America, there is no reason to kneel. Which...is...kinda true. So then those protesting end up looking like tools.

Do you actually know any progressives in real life? I mean actual Progressive outside what Fox News and talk radio and internet dweebs Proclaim liberal supposedly think? You talk more about the Viewpoint of liberals than any ten liberals I know oh, and you are inevitably wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong about what American liberals, and I emphasize American, actually believe in.

Seriously naso, I don't like these tools you rail against either. The only problem is that they are complete straw man Construction in your mind. There isn't one American Progressive in 10 that actually hates liberals. But you have to construct that in your mind, don't you? Otherwise how would you be able to justify you're being a complete tool In your views?

[Badger]

It's neat how this is a reverse of the usual "But that's why Trump won" argument.

"If you wern't being such thin-skinned snowflakes, we would never have kneeled during the anthem!"

Also:

Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11.  And many Arab Muslims in America, at a minimum, have a degree of sympathy for Islamic Jihadists.

WTF? What you said was basically what many Americans believed about Japanese-Americans before the government forced them into internment camps.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

26% of younger American Muslims believe suicide bombings are justified.  (Pew Research)

19% of American Muslims believe violence is justified in attempts to establish Sharia Law.  (Pew  Research)

20% of American Muslims believe violence is justified to advance the cause of Islam.  (Pew Research)

33% of American Muslims believe Sharia Law should be superior to the Constitution.  (CSP Poll)

49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first", 26% American first.  (Pew Research)

21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.  (Pew Research)

This is from polls conducted by public research firms, not information from conversations with Trump Rally attendees.  

FB, here's a pro tip. Don't take your stats for me website specifically drawn up to explain why Muslims are in fact the exception rule for peaceful religions and why they should be kept out. They just might be a Teensy bit slanted.

Go ahead and Google Pew research views American Muslims. Just in the last 2 months you'll find some of the following

If memory serves, 84% of American Muslims believe it is wrong to kill civilians to advance a political government goal. That compares to only approximately 67% of non Muslim Americans. In other words good old Americans like you and me, FB, are willing to accept collateral damage from drone strikes and bombing raids at a much higher rate than Muslim Americans are willing to tolerate suicide bombers.

A majority of American Muslims believe that the teachings of the Koran must be reinterpreted 4 modern day circumstances. Kind of ironic that you're willing to both impose the worst versions of a littlest interpretation of the Bible on secular society, just as you're willing to and turf with the worst verses of the Quran strictly against Muslim Americans to a degree that even they do not.

The percentage of American Muslims who believe that more than one version or teaching of Islam is acceptable as a post only the traditional interpretation of Islam is comprable to the same percentage of American Christians who believe the same, in the low 60 percentile range. Again, rather ironic considering you are in the minority there as well.

Finally, 92%-- let that number sink in-- 92% of American Muslims say they are proud to be American. Given all the shenanigans going on with the various sports teams protests, I wouldn't be surprised that number was lower among the non-muslim American population.

Again, choose your statistics source from a more legit vendor. It might actually change your views

My view is that we need lower levels of immigration in general, regardless of country of origin.  And those we let in ought to be fully vetted, including vetting as to issues of philosophy.  I don't care about race or ethnicity.  I care very much about one's commitment to liberal democracy and a republican form of government.  

I don't believe Americans ought to allow folks who do not agree with the concept of liberal democracy and individual liberties to emigrate to America, or to come to America and birth children here who will be raised to oppose liberal democracy and individual liberty.  This is not a "Muslim" issue, but it is not unfair to say that Muslims who support a Caliphate are not compatible with the sort of Constitutional freedoms and rights that I would assume most here seek to uphold.  The time to ask these questions is before someone is allowed to emigrate.

This issue is more complicated than most folks realize.  I don't care if I wake up someday and find myself as a racial or religious minority.  I do care if I wake up someday and find out that a new majority of Americans have used democracy to end liberty.  Every Iron Curtain Communist regime was installed in elections; this can certainly happen in America if enough things went wrong.

 

That's a completely Legit View, fuzzy bear, and one shared by the vast majority of Muslim immigrants. That's why they come to America to become Americans in a large degree. Just the same as the vast majority of European immigrants from a different age came over here without any experience of democratic participation and with allegiance to a relatively tightly controlled centralized International Church which to fear and suspicion from established Christian churches in America at the time. Yet those Italians, poles, hungarians, Etc all made our country a bigger and stronger place.

Does this make sense and why I think Muslims will by and large do the same thing to our country? The handful of Italians who were members of Cosa Nostra don't repudiate their immigration experience any more than a handful of terrorists among Muslim immigrants repudiates theirs.

[Badger]

I've been thinking about this whole issue for several days now.  Could I be wrong?  It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

I feel progressively uncomfortable with Trump's injection of himself into this issue.  There's the issue of a President urging private employers to fire folks for doing something he doesn't agree with.  Even given the inflammatory nature of what the kneelers are doing, what Trump is doing is quite the push of the envelope.  And calling them "sons of bitches" is very much beneath the Presidency.

I don't buy the idea that those who kneel are "respectful".  They are contemptuous of America, and they have been caught at that.  Think about it; if you didn't stand in Court when the bailiff said "All rise!", you'd be held in contempt.  Kneeling in protest of a Judge's decision would not be considered respectful, and rightfully so.  The next time you appeared in Court, you'd probably be needing your checkbook and a toothbrush.  In spirit, I see the kneelers as the same; contemptuous of America until they can remake it in the image they wish to remake it in.  

But I have come around to think that there is something un-American about the way Trump is going about this.  Mike Pence would react to this by saying, "This is what freedom looks like and sounds like." and leave the repercussions to the owners (if there were to be repercussions) without comment.  The kneelers are anti-American, and I've got a closed mind on that.  But using leverage to get folks fired is un-American, if sensibilities are offended, the free market can handle this issue.  I will say that it's hard for me to see how Trump is going to be able to use his incumbency to bring folks together even in the face of Rocket Man having a bigger meltdown than he's already had.

I think you've caught it, fuzzy bear. The biggest concern I have about this whole kerfluffle is that Trump has very consciously, almost instinctively, chosen the path of dividing rather than uniting our country. A second right quarterback from San Francisco man initiated the controversy, but it was almost a non-entity until Trump used his bully pulpit as president of the United States two truly ignited into a national controversy. The man literally can't help himself. This is still about old personal grudges that he can't rise above to act as a proper president over the usfl getting shut down, personal beefs he has with the league, and rather than simply saying I think it's wrong and moving on, he demands the firing of every player who protests.

 His Basic Instinct is to throw a bucket of gasoline on to every controversy and make it all about him him him him him. It is what he has done for 72 years of life he will not change in his 73rd year of life or his 74th. We can only imagine that President Obama, w, or Pence would have handled completely differently.

And that's why he truly is such an awful president. It goes far far beyond a mere liberal versus conservative dichotomy oh, and establishes he just does not begin to have even a threshold level of temperament, dignity, restraint, and acknowledgment that he is the leader of all Americans rather than those that just rabbit Lee support him, to serve as president of this great and-- for now at least-- United Country.