Mass Demonstrations in Tblisi Against "Russian law": Georgia's Euromaidan?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 17, 2024, 05:18:42 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  Mass Demonstrations in Tblisi Against "Russian law": Georgia's Euromaidan?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Mass Demonstrations in Tblisi Against "Russian law": Georgia's Euromaidan?  (Read 719 times)
Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: May 02, 2024, 02:58:30 AM »

There doesn't seem to be a thread about this (or at least the latest protests), which is a bit surprising. There is this thread about the 2023 protests:

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=542264.0

The 2023 protests occurred when the pro-Russian government, led behind the scenes by oligarch and former PM Bidzina Ivanishvili, tried to push this law through previously:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64882475

"There has been widespread international condemnation of the bill, which would require non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and independent media who receive more than 20% of their funding from abroad to declare themselves as foreign agents."

"The opposition described it as a Russian-style law that would stigmatise and clamp down on Georgia's vibrant civil society and independent media."

"Russia passed its own version of a "foreign agents" law in 2012, expanding it over the years to target and suppress Western-funded NGOs and media."

The protests then put a stop to it.

But the government came back and now has passed the law, which puts Georgia's EU candidacy in doubt.



It is not hard to understand why the pro-Russian government (and in particular Ivanishvili) wants to push the breaks on Georgia's joining the EU... because the EU is not enthusiastic about Ivanishvili:

EU parliament votes to consider sanctioning Georgia’s informal leader
The body cited Bidzina Ivanishvili’s “Kremlin links” just as the country is waiting for news from Brussels on whether it will be granted EU candidate status.


Quote
The body cited Bidzina Ivanishvili’s “Kremlin links” just as the country is waiting for news from Brussels on whether it will be granted EU candidate status.

The European Parliament has called on the EU to consider personal sanctions against Georgian billionaire and informal ruler Bidzina Ivanishvili and claimed that his alleged ties to the Russian government influence his country’s cautious position on the war in Ukraine.

On June 9, European lawmakers passed a harshly worded resolution on the worsening state of media freedom in Georgia, an increasingly sore spot in EU-Georgia relations. It was one paragraph deep in the six-page document, however, that got the most attention in Georgia: a call to consider sanctions against Ivanishvili for “his role in the deterioration of the political process in Georgia.”

The resolution also claimed that Ivanishvili had “personal and business links to the Kremlin” which “determine the position of the current government of Georgia towards sanctions on Russia.”


But the Georgian population is solidly in favor of joining the EU, setting up a conflict between Ivanishvili and much of the population.



Video shows scenes of mass popular demonstrations which seem reminiscent of the Euromaidan protests in Kyiv from 2014. More than a few observers have noticed the apparent similarities:





https://www.twitter.com/nseskuria/status/1785756850899566934


Quote
Incredible scenes from #Tbilisi



https://twitter.com/OnianiG/status/1785762505379246517


Quote
HappeningNow: #Tbilisi’s main avenue is packed with tens of thousands of people protesting against the #RussianLaw.
People keep coming irrespective of tear gas and rubber bullets.
#NoToOligarch #Ivanishvili



https://twitter.com/BrennpunktUA/status/1785826193339547919


Quote
If this picture from #Tbilisi Georgia 🇬🇪 doesn't remind you of Maidan 2014 in #Kyiv Ukraine 🇺🇦, I don't know what.

#NoToRussianLaw #FckRussia



https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1785771937353937206


Quote
The "Russia is trash" theme is strong amomg Georgians tonight.





Logged
EastAnglianLefty
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,614


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2024, 03:39:40 AM »

There's a thread on this in the International Elections board.
Logged
Hindsight was 2020
Hindsight is 2020
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,547
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2024, 07:24:11 AM »

Just like Euromaiden I can’t wait for people with “power to the people ✊” or “an injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere” in their bios on social media calling these protestors CIA psyops
Logged
CumbrianLefty
CumbrianLeftie
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,985
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2024, 08:36:39 AM »

There's a thread on this in the International Elections board.

Yes, but this is now about more than "just" elections so arguably deserves its own thread in here.
Logged
LAKISYLVANIA
Lakigigar
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,380
Belgium


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -4.78

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2024, 09:24:13 AM »

While sympathetic to their cause, there is nothing we can do. We couldn't defend Armenia too. Like what are we supposed to do, start another war in Georgia? Georgia on their own isn't going to be able to win their war, they don't even have the same strength as Ukraine. And you basically would need full control of the black sea to give them military and food supplies, which would be contested by Russia and lead to naval conflicts between European vessels and Russian drones.



Logged
SnowLabrador
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,830
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2024, 04:57:42 PM »

I'm so sick of war. I'm 23 years old, give me a break!
Logged
Hindsight was 2020
Hindsight is 2020
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,547
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2024, 05:04:33 PM »

I'm so sick of war. I'm 23 years old, give me a break!
First off this isn’t a war but a protest and second your main concern with what’s going on here is that it makes you personally upset?
Logged
SnowLabrador
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,830
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2024, 05:05:16 PM »

I'm so sick of war. I'm 23 years old, give me a break!
First off this isn’t a war but a protest and second your main concern with what’s going on here is that it makes you personally upset?

Russia is going to use this as a reason to invade the rest of Georgia.
Logged
Hindsight was 2020
Hindsight is 2020
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,547
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2024, 05:16:47 PM »

I'm so sick of war. I'm 23 years old, give me a break!
First off this isn’t a war but a protest and second your main concern with what’s going on here is that it makes you personally upset?

Russia is going to use this as a reason to invade the rest of Georgia.
Opening a second war while Ukraine is consuming their entire war effort would be very unwise
Logged
Cassius
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,610


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2024, 05:28:19 PM »

Russia won’t touch Georgia as long as Georgia doesn’t touch Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Calm down.
Logged
Storr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,290
Moldova, Republic of


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2024, 09:18:27 PM »

The crowds are impressive. Protests have been happening nightly since the ruling party (GD) said they were bringing the Russian "foreign NGO" law back to parliament, after pulling it last year due to massive public opposition.

Logged
EastAnglianLefty
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,614


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2024, 04:36:53 AM »

I'm so sick of war. I'm 23 years old, give me a break!
First off this isn’t a war but a protest and second your main concern with what’s going on here is that it makes you personally upset?

Russia is going to use this as a reason to invade the rest of Georgia.
Opening a second war while Ukraine is consuming their entire war effort would be very unwise

And they have no reason to when the present government is anxious to maintain good relations with Russia and the protesters show no signs of being able to overthrow the government.
Logged
Ferguson97
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,226
United States


P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2024, 06:17:19 AM »

I'm so sick of war. I'm 23 years old, give me a break!

Wow, thank you for your service. Which wars are you a veteran of?
Logged
Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,392
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2024, 10:44:05 AM »

Logged
Astatine
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,883


Political Matrix
E: -0.72, S: -5.90

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2024, 05:38:09 AM »

I'm so sick of war. I'm 23 years old, give me a break!
First off this isn’t a war but a protest and second your main concern with what’s going on here is that it makes you personally upset?

Russia is going to use this as a reason to invade the rest of Georgia.
Opening a second war while Ukraine is consuming their entire war effort would be very unwise

And they have no reason to when the present government is anxious to maintain good relations with Russia and the protesters show no signs of being able to overthrow the government.
Georgians are the French of the Caucasus after all, and will go out to protest for anything. A true "Euromaidan moment" would likely only emerge if GD wins the October elections by unfair means in a way that seems inconsistent with the public sentiment.

As governing party in Georgia, you can always rig elections a bit in a way that they don't lose their legitimacy at large, but if you rig them in a way that is too obviously fraudulent, you're likely to get an explosive reaction.

In 2012, Saakashvili's UNM lost the election by such a margin that even marginal vote buying in select precincts couldn't alter the overall outcome (55-40 or so), and that's the only time ever a peaceful transfer of power happened. After riggery was to blatant in 2003 (with results diverging way too much from parallel counts), public sentiment went really hard after Shevardnadze and he was forced to resign.

GD's strategy seems to make the elections as legitimate as possible while favoring themselves, while simultaneously doing all they can to disperse potential protests that will emerge post October:

- raise the threshold to 5 % and ban electoral blocs (though the latter can be circumvented by dual party memberships)
- keep bloating the civil sector on govt. payroll (some villages with a population of 500 in Kakheti have 3 state-employed tourist office workers that also feed their families...)
- switch to electronic vote counting (in a way that you will have to still cast your vote manually and mark the field of your preferred party thickly rather than do the classical tick/cross - which was criticized by several NGOs as voter intimidation, as you don't put your ballot in an envelope - Now if you're said state-employed tourist office worker in that village with GD-only representatives at the election office - which happens in many cases, as other parties lack the infrastructure to send representatives to every precinct - who would you vote for?)
- brand such NGOs (including election watchdogs and parallel count overseers) as "Foreign Agents Organization of Foreign Influence"

Suspiciously, the GD Mayor of Tbilisi ordered major construction and renovation works to take place on Rustaveli Avenue beginning in autumn. Guess what takes place that month and what this street is usually famous for?
Say what you want about GD, they're vile, reckless, authoritarian, maybe sometimes naive (though that could very well just be testing public mood), but they're hella smart. Power for themselves and Ivanishvili (they're not classical politicians but often acquaintances, friends, confidantes of Ivanishvili and his personal circles) is all they care for, and they will be careful to not start killing protestors like Yanukovych did. They'd be cooked.

Even if the current mood is anti-GD, that doesn't mean the disunited, toxic and unpopular opposition will truly benefit from it by October. But it was reported that GD leadership is very well aware that this will cost them votes, but they chose to slam it through nonetheless.
Anecdotal evidence, but it seems like the UNM really fell off (a trend that some polls showed, though take them with a giant grain of salt) and their decreasing relevance can only be good for the opposition. My die-hard Saakashvili supporting cousin will vote for Ahali, a friend whose grandparents are also hardcore UNM voters will vote for Ahali and Lelo respectively, two parties that don't have the massive toxicity that UNM carries (which would keep GD in power forever).

So, tldr, this is not Euromaidan 2.0 yet, but a Euromaidan-like scenario could await us in October/November.
Logged
💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)
peenie_weenie
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,513
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2024, 10:59:26 AM »

Is this the protest where the hot chick was putting her lipstick on in the reflection of the police shield? Very cool.
Logged
Astatine
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,883


Political Matrix
E: -0.72, S: -5.90

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2024, 05:40:47 PM »

So, yesterday the protests reached a new dimension of historical proportions, with some estimates putting the number of participants at 300,000 in Tbilisi alone. Remember that Georgia has a population of about 3.6 million (Tbilisi about 1.2 million).



Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.054 seconds with 12 queries.