French Jews Planning Mass Exodus in Wake of Terrorist Attacks

[ingemann]

I have heard this from Anglophone media the last decade and a half. Yes some Jews migrate from France to Israel, but honestly until we see a significant increase, this discussion is just the usual French bashing.

But even if Jews do emigrate from France, what are people suggestion to a solution; place all French Muslims in concentrations camps, ban Jewish emigration, nuke Israel or the rest of the Middle East or what (To the more more literal minded out there don't answer)? If Jews doesn't want to live in France, there's little which can done about it, and it's sad to see a group which give the state a surplus leave.

[ingemann]

Outside of France and Hungary, antisemitism in Europe appears to be lower than ever. Why they'd want to move to Israel and not Berlin or Barcelona makes no sense to me.

Among non-Muslim French people anti-semitism are also lower than ever, just look at the evolution of FN's opinions of Jews. Also if you look at the main group of Jews leaving, it's to large extent young people and with the youth unemployment in France being what it is, we could come with a alternate reason for why they choose to leave.

[ingemann]

But even if Jews do emigrate from France, what are people suggestion to a solution; place all French Muslims in concentrations camps, ban Jewish emigration, nuke Israel or the rest of the Middle East or what (To the more more literal minded out there don't answer)?

Simply do a better job integrating Muslims into mainstream society, instead of leaving them to stew in these ghettos:

...leaving them open to radicalization from Islamic extremists.  

Why haven't thought about that, we have a genius here.

[ingemann]

But even if Jews do emigrate from France, what are people suggestion to a solution; place all French Muslims in concentrations camps, ban Jewish emigration, nuke Israel or the rest of the Middle East or what (To the more more literal minded out there don't answer)?

Simply do a better job integrating Muslims into mainstream society, instead of leaving them to stew in these ghettos:

...leaving them open to radicalization from Islamic extremists.  

Why haven't thought about that, we have a genius here.

Unless you're implying you've tried it and have given up on it, what other option (realistically) is out there?   

I'm implying there's no fast easy solution and your suggestion was nothing more than the usual French-bashing.

[ingemann]

If that's what they feel needs to be done, then good. I have given up any hope of Europe's capability (or in some cases, desire) to protect their shrinking Jewish minority. Whether the next step is emigration to Israel or a less-hostile Western nation, I can only hope they find the peace and security that various elements are determined to deny them in Europe.

Europe is not a country.

France has the largest Jewish population and the most recent tragedy, but the harassment, intimidation, and terrorizing of Jews is a continent-wide problem right now.

Though not nearly as serious as harassment, intimidation, and terrorizing of, say, Muslims.

I disagree, unless you mean something internal in their community.

[ingemann]

If that's what they feel needs to be done, then good. I have given up any hope of Europe's capability (or in some cases, desire) to protect their shrinking Jewish minority. Whether the next step is emigration to Israel or a less-hostile Western nation, I can only hope they find the peace and security that various elements are determined to deny them in Europe.

Europe is not a country.

France has the largest Jewish population and the most recent tragedy, but the harassment, intimidation, and terrorizing of Jews is a continent-wide problem right now.

Though not nearly as serious as harassment, intimidation, and terrorizing of, say, Muslims.

I disagree, unless you mean something internal in their community.

Have you tried being Muslim in Europe?

Assalamu alaikum my brother.

 I would have agreed if he said there was widespread informal discrimination of Muslims, but there's a significant difference between that and what was said. Of course it also depend on how we define Europe, I wouldn't like to be Muslim on Crimea right now. But in western Europe, it seems most Muslims prefer to be Muslims there rather than being Muslims in Egypt, Syria, Albania or Turkey, so the scale of the "harassment, intimidation, and terrorizing" can't be that great.

[ingemann]

The Hungarian language may be a relative newcomer to Europe, but genetic the Hungarians are not significant different from their Slavic, Latin and Germanic neighbours. Of course it's not like North Africans are very distinct from Iberians, they have a little more subsaharan and Middle Eastern ancestory, but they mostly belong to the same original population group.

[ingemann]

The Hungarian language may be a relative newcomer to Europe, but genetic the Hungarians are not significant different from their Slavic, Latin and Germanic neighbours. Of course it's not like North Africans are very distinct from Iberians, they have a little more subsaharan and Middle Eastern ancestory, but they mostly belong to the same original population group.

Actually, according to the Basques you all are very recent migrants

Seeing as Baltic Germanics, Sardinians and Dalmatians are the only ones who have significant amount of pre-agricultural Y chromosome left, those uppity outlanders can move back to Mahgreb.

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You're aware that the closest related group to Ashkenazi are north Italians not Palestinians. I'm not aware who the Sephardic Jews are closest related to, but I would be surprised if it was not the Iberians.

 

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First of all I fail to see how saying that Hungarians are not some people completely alien from their Indo-European neighbours can be seen as as supporting extermination, unless you think it's wrong that people mix across  language borders, and conquers rarely eradicate the people they conquer.

In fact I find you obsession with blood purity very early 20th century and not in a good way. While I don't think you support some kind of apartheid system, I do find this obsession in bad taste. So I suggest that you join me in the 21st century, where people are free to marry people for love, even if they belong to different ethnic, religious or racial groups.

[ingemann]

There is no such thing as human "races".

No that's incorrect, while the genetic argument for the "three" races is very weak (as example Eurasians, North Africans and the people of Africans horn belong to the same genetic group, through not a biological race), the Sans in southern Africa is distinct enough that we would call them one race and everyone else another, if we only looked at genetics.

But the three "races" exist as a social-cultural construction, which is recognised by everybody but genetists and people who suffer from a bad case of ideological blindness.

[ingemann]

The Hungarian language may be a relative newcomer to Europe, but genetic the Hungarians are not significant different from their Slavic, Latin and Germanic neighbours. Of course it's not like North Africans are very distinct from Iberians, they have a little more subsaharan and Middle Eastern ancestory, but they mostly belong to the same original population group.

Actually, according to the Basques you all are very recent migrants

Seeing as Baltic Germanics, Sardinians and Dalmatians are the only ones who have significant amount of pre-agricultural Y chromosome left, those uppity outlanders can move back to Mahgreb.

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You're aware that the closest related group to Ashkenazi are north Italians not Palestinians. I'm not aware who the Sephardic Jews are closest related to, but I would be surprised if it was not the Iberians.

 

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First of all I fail to see how saying that Hungarians are not some people completely alien from their Indo-European neighbours can be seen as as supporting extermination, unless you think it's wrong that people mix across  language borders, and conquers rarely eradicate the people they conquer.

In fact I find you obsession with blood purity very early 20th century and not in a good way. While I don't think you support some kind of apartheid system, I do find this obsession in bad taste. So I suggest that you join me in the 21st century, where people are free to marry people for love, even if they belong to different ethnic, religious or racial groups.

1. You realize that all your discussion here is 10% science and 90% romantic interpretation, don´t you?

Well of course, but it's you who bring up that people who have lived in Europe for centuries are not native Europeans. You're free not to see you self as one. That's you choice, but keep you ideology of blood purity away from me. I only use these terms because for some reason some people keep claiming that people and that people are not Europeans, so I read up on these things, to use in discussions, where Nazi and in this case liberals says that people like the Hungarians are not Europeans.

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Really you keep bringing it up not me. You bring up national romantic sh**t right out of the 19th century about the Basque being the original Europeans and Jews being pure middle easterner up. Here's the thing pure race people doesn't exist, people mix when they live as neighbours. I'm sure you would also say that Romani are Indians rather than Europeans and other crap.

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In that case you shouldn't derail the thread because a non-native English speakers use the terms the English (Americans) speakers seem to love and throw a hissy fit if we don't use. No we don't use Judeo when we talk about European culture (we talk about European or Christendom), it's really a American thing, but when you're on a American board... well in Rome do as the Romans, and hope someone with an axe to grind doesn't use it to derail the entire thread.

[ingemann]

There is no such thing as human "races".

No that's incorrect, while the genetic argument for the "three" races is very weak (as example Eurasians, North Africans and the people of Africans horn belong to the same genetic group, through not a biological race), the Sans in southern Africa is distinct enough that we would call them one race and everyone else another, if we only looked at genetics.

But the three "races" exist as a social-cultural construction, which is recognised by everybody but genetists and people who suffer from a bad case of ideological blindness.

And which of the three races would, say, Mexicans be? In a "socio-cultural" way?

I wasn't aware Mexicans was a "race", would you care to enlighten me, please? I have always seen Mexico as a nation populated by a diverse people.

[ingemann]

Well, this is, eh...

Just wanted to agree with Al, really, that it's absurd to talk of a European race or people because essentially nothing unites Europe. And I think it's pretty controversial to talk about Asian or African races too. And for good reason.

It reminds me of the story about the Croatic and the two Serbic veterans who meet each others on Java. Did they start fighting? No they walked into a bar, got drunk, while talking about the old land and sang together.

Europeans may not have a lot in common, when we sit at home, but when we compare us with non-Europeans when suddenly we have a lot in common, from cultural clues to a shared history.