Should the age of consent be raised to 20?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

LOL no.

[darklordoftech]

No. Adults are adults, and I’d be more worried about them being manipulated into joining the military than them being manipulated into sleeping with someone.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No. Adults are adults, and I’d be more worried about them being manipulated into joining the military than them being manipulated into sleeping with someone.

It's kind of weird seeing this sort of thing from a D-NJ to be honest, LOL.

[Big Abraham]

The age of consent should be lowered. Americans are way too puritanical when it comes to sexual intercourse.

[Saint Milei]

The age of consent should be lowered. Americans are way too puritanical when it comes to sexual intercourse.

Ur nasty

[darklordoftech]

No. Adults are adults, and I’d be more worried about them being manipulated into joining the military than them being manipulated into sleeping with someone.

It's kind of weird seeing this sort of thing from a D-NJ to be honest, LOL.

Why’s it wierd for a Democrat from New Jersey to say what I said?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

No. Adults are adults, and I’d be more worried about them being manipulated into joining the military than them being manipulated into sleeping with someone.

It's kind of weird seeing this sort of thing from a D-NJ to be honest, LOL.

Why’s it wierd for a Democrat from New Jersey to say what I said?

Perception that D-NJ avatars are more socially authoritarian.

Anyway, I think the current ages of consent in the US are essentially fine where they are, except where they’re 18.

[Sestak]

No. Adults are adults, and I’d be more worried about them being manipulated into joining the military than them being manipulated into sleeping with someone.

It's kind of weird seeing this sort of thing from a D-NJ to be honest, LOL.

Why’s it wierd for a Democrat from New Jersey to say what I said?

This thread was made in response to another D-NJ avatar proposing the age be raised. Plus S019, who is also D-NJ, has the reputation of being the most prudish poster on this web site.

[darklordoftech]

No. Adults are adults, and I’d be more worried about them being manipulated into joining the military than them being manipulated into sleeping with someone.

It's kind of weird seeing this sort of thing from a D-NJ to be honest, LOL.

Why’s it wierd for a Democrat from New Jersey to say what I said?

This thread was made in response to another D-NJ avatar proposing the age be raised. Plus S019, who is also D-NJ, has the reputation of being the most prudish poster on this web site.

S019 and I both having red NJ avatars is where our similarities end. I’m a lifelong Democrat and I think it should be legal to drink beer nude in the middle of Times Square on live tv uncensored.

[Person Man]

Are you insane?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

No

[Ferguson97]

The age of consent should be lowered. Americans are way too puritanical when it comes to sexual intercourse.

Uh… lowered to what, exactly?

[Big Abraham]

The age of consent should be lowered. Americans are way too puritanical when it comes to sexual intercourse.

Uh… lowered to what, exactly?

~16 is a reasonable age. That's how old you have to be to get a job and a driver's license. I think if you're old enough to sell your labor and operate a motor vehicle, you're old enough to consent to sexual acts.

Of course, the age of consent is already 16 in most U.S. states (including in your home state of New Jersey.) In states like California and New York where it is higher, it should be lowered.

For what it's worth, a lower age of consent (~16), when coupled with solid, compulsory sex education, has a better outcome in terms of teenage pregnancy and teenage VD rates.

[beaver2.0]

No it should be at 28.

[beesley]

Big Abraham is absolutely right. 16 is a reasonable age, which is why nobody here has ever wanted to change it - what people have wanted to do is improve the quality of sex education and particularly encourage consent as a requirement in people's minds. Some people here might have puritanical views about sex - as do a small minority of British people who have always failed in their efforts. I respect those who wish to wait until marriage - but just raising it to an arbitrary age based on backwards and unhelpful attitudes or moral superiority does not do anything to solve real problems, like lack of consent and rape culture, addiction to and reliance on pornography, particularly as an self-educational tool, or an unwillingness to talk about difficult personal experiences with others.

[Ferguson97]

The age of consent should be lowered. Americans are way too puritanical when it comes to sexual intercourse.

Uh… lowered to what, exactly?

~16 is a reasonable age. That's how old you have to be to get a job and a driver's license. I think if you're old enough to sell your labor and operate a motor vehicle, you're old enough to consent to sexual acts.

Of course, the age of consent is already 16 in most U.S. states (including in your home state of New Jersey.) In states like California and New York where it is higher, it should be lowered.

For what it's worth, a lower age of consent (~16), when coupled with solid, compulsory sex education, has a better outcome in terms of teenage pregnancy and teenage VD rates.

16 year old's can be old enough to consent to sexual acts, but only with other people their age. I am perfectly fine with Romeo and Juliet laws as well - my issue is the power dynamic between a teenager and a much older adult.

Like I said, I'm not taking about borderline cases where a 19-year-old has a 16-year-old girlfriend... I'm talking about the creepy 30+ guys who go after girls barely out of high school (or in some cases, still in high school).

A 20 year old is in a vastly different spot, both mentally and in terms of a life stage, than a 16 year old. They are not mature enough to properly make a decision on whether or not to have a relationship with a much older person. There are fundamental power dynamics at play.

[Big Abraham]

The age of consent should be lowered. Americans are way too puritanical when it comes to sexual intercourse.

Uh… lowered to what, exactly?

~16 is a reasonable age. That's how old you have to be to get a job and a driver's license. I think if you're old enough to sell your labor and operate a motor vehicle, you're old enough to consent to sexual acts.

Of course, the age of consent is already 16 in most U.S. states (including in your home state of New Jersey.) In states like California and New York where it is higher, it should be lowered.

For what it's worth, a lower age of consent (~16), when coupled with solid, compulsory sex education, has a better outcome in terms of teenage pregnancy and teenage VD rates.

16 year old's can be old enough to consent to sexual acts, but only with other people their age. I am perfectly fine with Romeo and Juliet laws as well - my issue is the power dynamic between a teenager and a much older adult.

Like I said, I'm not taking about borderline cases where a 19-year-old has a 16-year-old girlfriend... I'm talking about the creepy 30+ guys who go after girls barely out of high school (or in some cases, still in high school).

A 20 year old is in a vastly different spot, both mentally and in terms of a life stage, than a 16 year old. They are not mature enough to properly make a decision on whether or not to have a relationship with a much older person. There are fundamental power dynamics at play.

Why only with other people their age? You don't think a 16 year old is mentally sound enough to decide if he/she wants to have sex with someone who's 25? A 16 year old can decide to sell their labor to an employer much older than them, but engaging in sexual acts (even if there is reciprocal love) with someone much older is too much for you? Why is that? It seems to me that you are just a bit squeamish about sex. Which is fine, but your personal feelings on the matter do not, and ought not, dictate policy.

Even in jurisdictions where the age of consent is around 16 or slightly younger (i.e. basically the entire Western world), they make exceptions for people who could be reasonably considered to be in a "position of power" over them and thus may feel coerced into sexual acts. So they make exceptions for teachers, employers etc. But to assume that all or even most people who are older than the person at the age of consent are in some kind of "abuse of power" relationship over the younger partner is just silly.

[Ferguson97]

Why only with other people their age? You don't think a 16 year old is mentally sound enough to decide if he/she wants to have sex with someone who's 25?

No, I do not. I know that you're the same age as me, so we haven't been 16 in a while, but when was the last time you were around a 16 year old? They are extremely immature. I cannot imagine being with someone that young and not feeling like a creep.

A 16 year old can decide to sell their labor to an employer much older than them, but engaging in sexual acts (even if there is reciprocal love) with someone much older is too much for you? Why is that?

There is a significant difference between getting a job and sex.

But to assume that all or even most people who are older than the person at the age of consent are in some kind of "abuse of power" relationship over the younger partner is just silly.

To suggest that there is not an inherent power dynamic between a 30-year-old and 16-year-old is nonsensical.

[LabourJersey]

The age of consent, like all other minimum ages for serious adult activities (marriage, military, smoking, drinking beer/wine), should be at 18.

[Big Abraham]

No, I do not. I know that you're the same age as me, so we haven't been 16 in a while, but when was the last time you were around a 16 year old? They are extremely immature. I cannot imagine being with someone that young and not feeling like a creep.

I don't hang around 16 year olds, and to be frank I find them mostly immature also (though, to be clear, I also find most college-aged girls 18-21 immature). There are of course girls who are even older than that who are emotionally immature. That doesn't mean it should be illegal to enter into a sexual relationship with them.

There is a significant difference between getting a job and sex.

If anything, a job entails more coercion, requires more commitment, and is certainly no less of a mature responsibility.

To suggest that there is not an inherent power dynamic between a 30-year-old and 16-year-old is nonsensical.

Do you not think it is possible for a 30 year old and a 16 year old to express mutual feelings and desires for each other? What about a 20 year old and a 45 year old? The latter should be legal in your eyes, but not the former. How "creepy" you find it is not the point – if there is no harm done, and is obviously consensual, there's no legitimate reason to ban it.

[Ferguson97]

No, I do not. I know that you're the same age as me, so we haven't been 16 in a while, but when was the last time you were around a 16 year old? They are extremely immature. I cannot imagine being with someone that young and not feeling like a creep.

I don't hang around 16 year olds, and to be frank I find them mostly immature also (though, to be clear, I also find most college-aged girls 18-21 immature). There are of course girls who are even older than that who are emotionally immature. That doesn't mean it should be illegal to enter into a sexual relationship with them.

There is a significant difference between getting a job and sex.

If anything, a job entails more coercion, requires more commitment, and is certainly no less of a mature responsibility.

To suggest that there is not an inherent power dynamic between a 30-year-old and 16-year-old is nonsensical.

Do you not think it is possible for a 30 year old and a 16 year old to express mutual feelings and desires for each other? What about a 20 year old and a 45 year old? The latter should be legal in your eyes, but not the former. How "creepy" you find it is not the point – if there is no harm done, and is obviously consensual, there's no legitimate reason to ban it.

So since you say it should be 16, you would then agree that having sex with someone below 16 should be illegal (excluding someone within a few years, to allow for Romeo/Juliet laws). So obviously you agree that a 15 year old and 40 year old should be illegal. But not a 16 year old.

We both agree that there should be a cutoff, we just disagree where it is.

Why is 16 specifically the appropriate cutoff?

I think it should be 20 because it's a few years out of high school, and the person is now either in college or working. So they're in a reasonably comparable life stage to the older person.

[OSR stands with Israel]

No and this is coming from someone who thinks that people should not have pre-marital sex

[Big Abraham]

No, I do not. I know that you're the same age as me, so we haven't been 16 in a while, but when was the last time you were around a 16 year old? They are extremely immature. I cannot imagine being with someone that young and not feeling like a creep.

I don't hang around 16 year olds, and to be frank I find them mostly immature also (though, to be clear, I also find most college-aged girls 18-21 immature). There are of course girls who are even older than that who are emotionally immature. That doesn't mean it should be illegal to enter into a sexual relationship with them.

There is a significant difference between getting a job and sex.

If anything, a job entails more coercion, requires more commitment, and is certainly no less of a mature responsibility.

To suggest that there is not an inherent power dynamic between a 30-year-old and 16-year-old is nonsensical.

Do you not think it is possible for a 30 year old and a 16 year old to express mutual feelings and desires for each other? What about a 20 year old and a 45 year old? The latter should be legal in your eyes, but not the former. How "creepy" you find it is not the point – if there is no harm done, and is obviously consensual, there's no legitimate reason to ban it.

So since you say it should be 16, you would then agree that having sex with someone below 16 should be illegal (excluding someone within a few years, to allow for Romeo/Juliet laws). So obviously you agree that a 15 year old and 40 year old should be illegal. But not a 16 year old.

We both agree that there should be a cutoff, we just disagree where it is.

Why is 16 specifically the appropriate cutoff?

I think it should be 20 because it's a few years out of high school, and the person is now either in college or working. So they're in a reasonably comparable life stage to the older person.

Because as I have mentioned, at 16 you are considered legally competent for employment and driving. Should the minimum employment age be raised to 20? Because as I mentioned, that requires more emotional maturity, responsibility/commitment, and entails a higher degree of coercion than sexual intercourse, even with an older person. And of course at 18 you are considered competent enough to join the military, sign/enter into contracts (including marriage btw), and to vote. Those are all big decisions that require maturity, and yet you seem to be implying that sleeping with someone older is something they are apparently not mentally competent for, and have to wait an additional 2 years for some reason. Like I said, I just think you have some weird hangups about sex, nothing that is based on sound reasoning.

[Ferguson97]

No, I do not. I know that you're the same age as me, so we haven't been 16 in a while, but when was the last time you were around a 16 year old? They are extremely immature. I cannot imagine being with someone that young and not feeling like a creep.

I don't hang around 16 year olds, and to be frank I find them mostly immature also (though, to be clear, I also find most college-aged girls 18-21 immature). There are of course girls who are even older than that who are emotionally immature. That doesn't mean it should be illegal to enter into a sexual relationship with them.

There is a significant difference between getting a job and sex.

If anything, a job entails more coercion, requires more commitment, and is certainly no less of a mature responsibility.

To suggest that there is not an inherent power dynamic between a 30-year-old and 16-year-old is nonsensical.

Do you not think it is possible for a 30 year old and a 16 year old to express mutual feelings and desires for each other? What about a 20 year old and a 45 year old? The latter should be legal in your eyes, but not the former. How "creepy" you find it is not the point – if there is no harm done, and is obviously consensual, there's no legitimate reason to ban it.

So since you say it should be 16, you would then agree that having sex with someone below 16 should be illegal (excluding someone within a few years, to allow for Romeo/Juliet laws). So obviously you agree that a 15 year old and 40 year old should be illegal. But not a 16 year old.

We both agree that there should be a cutoff, we just disagree where it is.

Why is 16 specifically the appropriate cutoff?

I think it should be 20 because it's a few years out of high school, and the person is now either in college or working. So they're in a reasonably comparable life stage to the older person.

Because as I have mentioned, at 16 you are considered legally competent for employment and driving. Should the minimum employment age be raised to 20? Because as I mentioned, that requires more emotional maturity, responsibility/commitment, and entails a higher degree of coercion than sexual intercourse, even with an older person. And of course at 18 you are considered competent enough to join the military, sign/enter into contracts (including marriage btw), and to vote. Those are all big decisions that require maturity, and yet you seem to be implying that sleeping with someone older is something they are apparently not mentally competent for, and have to wait an additional 2 years for some reason. Like I said, I just think you have some weird hangups about sex, nothing that is based on sound reasoning.

I would also favor raising the age to get married, btw. But that's beside the point.

I don't have hang-ups about sex. I just think it's wrong for full-grown adults to have sex with people barely out of high school.

[Big Abraham]

I would also favor raising the age to get married, btw. But that's beside the point.

I don't have hang-ups about sex. I just think it's wrong for full-grown adults to have sex with people barely out of high school.

You are free to think it is wrong. You are free not to indulge in such activity. But there is a difference between that, and what should be banned, and I think I have demonstrated using a plethora of reasons why banning such activity - outside of certain exceptions which nearly every jurisdiction recognizes - makes no sense at all. Humans are free agents, autonomous creatures capable of making rational decisions for themselves, once they reach a specified age - and the age at which someone is able to sells their labor to an employer, (or even to vote, join the armed forces), are much better candidates for that age than the age of 20, the number that makes Ferguson97 more comfortable.