North Korea Mega Thread

[Beet]

There is zero evidence that North Korea would ever do anything like launch a suicidal attack on the US. That's the bottom line. Outside of the heavy alarmism here, most of the world is not that worried--including the Russians, Chinese, and the Japanese and South Koreans who have lived under the North Korea threat for years and decades. North Korea continues to accept 100,000 tourists a year, including thousands of (non-US) Western tourists, the vast majority of whom go in and out with no incident; it continues to build hotels and try to develop its economy, and conducts $2-$3 billion in trade, and has relations with most world countries. To listen to some people here, you'd think none of this exists and the whole country consists only of their nonsensical propaganda and nuclear program. Every indication is that this is a government that wants to live and even grow in a semi-normal fashion. What would really help is to recognize that Jacobin American's post above illustrates that the cost of war is too high and ratchet down the threats while not giving them anything either.

[Beet]

What we do know is that the KPA gets extremely antsy over the military exercises- more than anything else we do- which they perceive as offensive in nature, and the ramping up of these exercises is considered extremely provocative. The more these are ramped up, the more brinksmanship they will engage in.

[Senator Spark]

There is zero evidence that North Korea would ever do anything like launch a suicidal attack on the US. That's the bottom line. Outside of the heavy alarmism here, most of the world is not that worried--including the Russians, Chinese, and the Japanese and South Koreans who have lived under the North Korea threat for years and decades. North Korea continues to accept 100,000 tourists a year, including thousands of (non-US) Western tourists, the vast majority of whom go in and out with no incident; it continues to build hotels and try to develop its economy, and conducts $2-$3 billion in trade, and has relations with most world countries. To listen to some people here, you'd think none of this exists and the whole country consists only of their nonsensical propaganda and nuclear program. Every indication is that this is a government that wants to live and even grow in a semi-normal fashion. What would really help is to recognize that Jacobin American's post above illustrates that the cost of war is too high and ratchet down the threats while not giving them anything either.

I wouldn't ever rule that out so it's best to be prepared and also we have to be sure our military is ready to protect South Korea in the event that the lunatic makes a miscalculation and one of the missiles lands where it wasn't intended.

[BuckeyeNut]

Constructive?

[Senator Spark]

When he sees his land is laden with fire, fury, wrath of destruction and total annihilation by our tomahawk missile technology on his nuclear arsenal.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Kinda sad story but reports are out of S.Korea that the media is giving this little coverage. Apparently they are treating Trunp like they do with N. Korea and just tune out what is being said

[pikachu]

The point of the nuke is to be a deterrent and insure that his regime won't fall because of invasion...the alarmism that North Korea obtaining a nuclear weapon means that they are going to attack LA asap is ridiculous. Kim's rational, he knows that any attack on the the US/Japan/ROK is suicidal. The North Korean regime doesn't have some nihilistic, ideological mission to destroy the US a la ISIS, they just want their rule to survive.

[Senator Spark]

Kinda sad story but reports are out of S.Korea that the media is giving this little coverage. Apparently they are treating Trunp like they do with N. Korea and just tune out what is being said

Do you think South Korea is in denial while continuing to dismiss the threats. Or do they believe they aren't serious?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Kinda sad story but reports are out of S.Korea that the media is giving this little coverage. Apparently they are treating Trunp like they do with N. Korea and just tune out what is being said

Do you think South Korea is in denial while continuing to dismiss the threats. Or do they believe they aren't serious?

Given his record, why would anyone think Trump was serious?

[TML]

Kinda sad story but reports are out of S.Korea that the media is giving this little coverage. Apparently they are treating Trunp like they do with N. Korea and just tune out what is being said

Do you think South Korea is in denial while continuing to dismiss the threats. Or do they believe they aren't serious?

Given his record, why would anyone think Trump was serious?

Trump is still actively trying to implement his core campaign promises, so why wouldn't anything he says be taken seriously?

[Senator Spark]

Kinda sad story but reports are out of S.Korea that the media is giving this little coverage. Apparently they are treating Trunp like they do with N. Korea and just tune out what is being said

Do you think South Korea is in denial while continuing to dismiss the threats. Or do they believe they aren't serious?

Given his record, why would anyone think Trump was serious?

Talking about North Korea

[Hindsight was 2020]

Kinda sad story but reports are out of S.Korea that the media is giving this little coverage. Apparently they are treating Trunp like they do with N. Korea and just tune out what is being said

Do you think South Korea is in denial while continuing to dismiss the threats. Or do they believe they aren't serious?

Given his record, why would anyone think Trump was serious?

Talking about North Korea

Of course they don't take it seriously they've been hearing this garbage since Kim's grandfather

[Middle-aged Europe]

I like it how in most of the German media the headline "Trump and North Korea are threatening each other" is used and not "USA and North Korea are threatening each other".

Donald Trump doesn't necessarily speak for the U.S. government... see the Qatar conflict or the ban on transgenders in the military, for example. I hope the North Korean government is capable of making that distinction as well.

[emailking]

Btw, the effort to remove the nuclear capability from Trump (CINC) is blatantly unconstitutional

I don't think so. Congress has the power to declare war. A lot of that authority has been delegated out to the President, but Congress can always take it back.

[BudgieForce]

A lot of the posts on here are wrong from a tactical perspective. Btw, the effort to remove the nuclear capability from Trump (CINC) is blatantly unconstitutional and wrong from a strategic standpoint. If on the offchance that DC is nuked, Trump would have advance warning and evac/get in the PEOC, but many in Congress would not have that option. The president MUST ALWAYS have an unlimited, unquestioned authority over the military for rapid response in times of crisis, Trump included, even as I disagree with Trump on many things he still is CINC.

In terms of the naval side of things, if anyone would like better links or insight, I can reply if you want, but I can't post a lot of things. I can field basic questions if you would like, since there are very few vets on Atlas.

As I said, I hope this doesn't go down, but it is looking increasingly likely.

Relevant: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/08/us-air-force-jets-take-off-from-guam-for-training-ensuring-can-fight-tonight.html

Also to the folks that replied it would take a long time, etc., it really wouldn't. It would take an order from CINC, flight time, missile time, naval asset ONSTA (on station) time. See above.

The fear mongering is unhelpful. I have yet to see any expert on foreign policy say war is likely.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Lindsay Graham never met a country he didn't want to nuke

[GeorgiaModerate]

Posted 1 hour ago

 Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump  1 hour ago
 My first order as President was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before....

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump  1 hour ago
 ...Hopefully we will never have to use this power, but there will never be a time that we are not the most powerful nation in the world!

You don't renovate and modernize a nuclear arsenal in a matter of months.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

A lot of the posts on here are wrong from a tactical perspective. Btw, the effort to remove the nuclear capability from Trump (CINC) is blatantly unconstitutional and wrong from a strategic standpoint. If on the offchance that DC is nuked, Trump would have advance warning and evac/get in the PEOC, but many in Congress would not have that option. The president MUST ALWAYS have an unlimited, unquestioned authority over the military for rapid response in times of crisis, Trump included, even as I disagree with Trump on many things he still is CINC.

Lies and nonsense.

No one is seriously talking about removing the President's ability to respond to an attack on the United States. They just want to stop him from starting a war, particularly a nuclear one.

The Constitution assigns the power to make war to Congress. That Trump is such a terrible President that Congress feels the need to  flex its authority on this field is all because of Trump and the Republicans who elected him.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Posted 1 hour ago

 Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump  1 hour ago
 My first order as President was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before....

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump  1 hour ago
 ...Hopefully we will never have to use this power, but there will never be a time that we are not the most powerful nation in the world!

He sounds more like Kim every day.

[emailking]

Btw, the effort to remove the nuclear capability from Trump (CINC) is blatantly unconstitutional

I don't think so. Congress has the power to declare war. A lot of that authority has been delegated out to the President, but Congress can always take it back.

Wrong for nuclear. OPLAN 8010-12 is CINC and DoD.

No I don't think it's wrong at all. Yes Congress has passed laws establishing and maintaining a Department of Defense, as a mechanism for requirement to provide for the national defense, and as a means for organization the army and navy, which are all called for in the Constitution. Congress has also given the President the power to make war in certain circumstances without pre-clearance. The President is CINC of the armed forces but that in and of itself does not mean he can do whatever he wants with the armed forces or that Congress cannot impose restrictions on how he can use the armed forces.

Congress would have no say in the matter if it came down to a launch decision.

This is a good read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Command_Authority
Also https://fas.org/blogs/security/2013/04/oplan8010-12/

All the links do is describe the current situation (which Congress has not seriously pushed back on to this point). There's no Constitutional argument in them.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

A lot of the posts on here are wrong from a tactical perspective. Btw, the effort to remove the nuclear capability from Trump (CINC) is blatantly unconstitutional and wrong from a strategic standpoint. If on the offchance that DC is nuked, Trump would have advance warning and evac/get in the PEOC, but many in Congress would not have that option. The president MUST ALWAYS have an unlimited, unquestioned authority over the military for rapid response in times of crisis, Trump included, even as I disagree with Trump on many things he still is CINC.

Lies and nonsense.

No one is seriously talking about removing the President's ability to respond to an attack on the United States. They just want to stop him from starting a war, particularly a nuclear one.

The Constitution assigns the power to make war to Congress. That Trump is such a terrible President that Congress feels the need to  flex its authority on this field is all because of Trump and the Republicans who elected him.

The Constitution was written in a time when no one could ever dream of a war in which cities could be destroyed from opposite sides of the planet within 30 minutes, including vaporizing all members of Congress along with it. That is why the decision to launch is with the president and not Congress, whether the president is good, bad, or in between, that doesn't matter to the military, and the military will obey and order from the CINC no matter the party or the petty stuff Trump has done. In military matters, CINC is the ultimate authority and the only authority for the authorization of a nuclear strike.

Lies and blind assertions do not make reality, or reflect the law.

Just because you  cannot understand the difference between responding to an attack and starting one, or because you want Trump to be able to murder millions on a whim, does not mean that he has any Constitutional authority to do so or that Congress cannot restrain him.

If there's a silver lining to having a stupid, insane, and incompetent President threatening war crimes, it is that it really may push Congress to muzzle his ability for mass murder. And by extension, restrict all future Presidents, too.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Dude give it a rest, he's not going to order a preemptive strike.  Ugh, Grungeghost, sometimes.......

[MasterJedi]

Supposedly North Korea is thinking about striking Guam, can't imagine they're really that stupid.

[Shadows]

'God has given Donald Trump authority to take out Kim Jong-un,' President's evangelical adviser says

“When it comes to how we should deal with evil doers, the Bible, in the book of Romans, is very clear: God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary - including war - to stop evil,” Jeffress said. “In the case of North Korea, God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong-un.”

The biblical passage Romans 13 gives the government authority to deal with evildoers, Jeffress said. “That gives the government to the authority to do whatever, whether it's assassination, capital punishment or evil punishment to quell the actions of evildoers like Kim Jong-un,” he said.

He said that many pacifist Christians will cite Romans 12, which says, “Do not repay evil for evil,” but Jeffress says that that passage is referring to Christians, not to the government.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-north-korea-latest-nuclear-war-kim-jong-un-god-given-authority-robert-jeffress-white-a7883746.html

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Mad Dog Mattis has issued a statement

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/politics/mattis-pentagon-north-korea/index.html?sr=twCNN080917mattis-pentagon-north-korea1254PMVODtop