NO on Constitution

[S019]

Good evening,

Just a few hours ago, a proposal to change the Constitution passed the Council. As the bill's only opponent, I'd like to explain my reasoning to the rest of you. To begin with, it was never clear why the reform was pushed, the answers seemed vague like "the government is confusing," however this really isn't true, the system has worked fine from my view, having been active in Lincoln for two years now, I have seen many a newbie come and go, including myself, and the system worked fine then, it works fine now.

Another reason for my opposition is the change to Lincoln's unique form of government. Currently, Lincoln is the only region which gives more power to the legislature than the executive. This allows for the legislature to keep the executive in check and prevent executive abuse. More importantly, it allows for new legislators to feel that they are actually important and are running a government rather than participating in one.

As you all are aware, the last time that this region changed its constitution there was an activity crisis, all three members elected to the assembly were recalled and the region had no legislature. No such crisis exists right now, in fact the region has during some Councils been the most active region, for instance the 2nd Council saw a total of 50-something bills, this one has seen 19.

Another reason for my opposition to this change is the unique manifestation of partisan politics in Lincoln. Lincoln has long been known for its deeply partisan battles. Thus a simple system of having all slots open to all legislators simply will not work, as it will encourage bill clogging as was seen in June 2019, Lincoln actually avoided the clogging as the bills that were spammed were all in the opposition queue. The government/opposition dynamic and more importantly the split of the slots based on partisanship is important for a partisan region like Lincoln as it ensures everyone's voice is heard.

Overall, this Constitution may indeed address some problems in Lincoln's government, but there are many that it does not address, that are addressed by the current constitution, and the current constitution has worked well with Lincoln's unique dynamics. I highly urge a NAY vote, and encourage anyone who has questions about either my views or the views of this campaign, to PM me either on the forum or Discord, or to ask below.

[Dr. MB]

Good evening,

Just a few hours ago, a proposal to change the Constitution passed the Council. As the bill's only opponent, I'd like to explain my reasoning to the rest of you. To begin with, it was never clear why the reform was pushed, the answers seemed vague like "the government is confusing," however this really isn't true, the system has worked fine from my view, having been active in Lincoln for two years now, I have seen many a newbie come and go, including myself, and the system worked fine then, it works fine now.

No, it hasn't worked fine and that's why every successive council has watered down the original Philly Plan in some form. Just because you're not confused by it doesn't mean other people aren't.

Another reason for my opposition is the change to Lincoln's unique form of government. Currently, Lincoln is the only region which gives more power to the legislature than the executive. This allows for the legislature to keep the executive in check and prevent executive abuse. More importantly, it allows for new legislators to feel that they are actually important and are running a government rather than participating in one.

Not even giving the governor a true power of veto and constant referendums isn't a great model of government. Having separate chancellor, speaker, and governor positions is also unnecessary. Has there been an example of "executive abuse" that you can think of? I can't think of any. Regional governments have always been a pretty lowkey matter.

As you all are aware, the last time that this region changed its constitution there was an activity crisis, all three members elected to the assembly were recalled and the region had no legislature. No such crisis exists right now, in fact the region has during some Councils been the most active region, for instance the 2nd Council saw a total of 50-something bills, this one has seen 19.

That came after a very active summer with lots of bills passed in the Assembly. The reason this new Assembly was inactive was because it was made up of three inexperienced players and had nothing to do with the Assembly system of government. Changing government styles doesn't increase activity in any meaningful way. It's all based on the people involved. I'm sure if the Assembly had stayed around Lincoln would have the same amount of activity.

Another reason for my opposition to this change is the unique manifestation of partisan politics in Lincoln. Lincoln has long been known for its deeply partisan battles. Thus a simple system of having all slots open to all legislators simply will not work, as it will encourage bill clogging as was seen in June 2019, Lincoln actually avoided the clogging as the bills that were spammed were all in the opposition queue. The government/opposition dynamic and more importantly the split of the slots based on partisanship is important for a partisan region like Lincoln as it ensures everyone's voice is heard.

Denying the minority equal opportunity to make their voices heard is undemocratic (and now that you're in the minority I'd think you would realize that). "Queue clogging" is a scare tactic which can be dealt with if it happens. Otherwise it's meaningless especially given that it hasn't occurred in 2 years. Preventative measures for something that might happen which lead to a weakening of true democracy are bad.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

I wonder who Lincoln should trust more. The incredibly experienced hands of Truman, Sestak, Tack and KaiserDave who drafted this new constitution. Or some random guy with poor grammar.

[S019]

Good evening,

Just a few hours ago, a proposal to change the Constitution passed the Council. As the bill's only opponent, I'd like to explain my reasoning to the rest of you. To begin with, it was never clear why the reform was pushed, the answers seemed vague like "the government is confusing," however this really isn't true, the system has worked fine from my view, having been active in Lincoln for two years now, I have seen many a newbie come and go, including myself, and the system worked fine then, it works fine now.

No, it hasn't worked fine and that's why every successive council has watered down the original Philly Plan in some form. Just because you're not confused by it doesn't mean other people aren't.

Most of the fixing was done fairly early on, later fixes have just been mechanical things. Also I have yet to see evidence of a single person being confused

Another reason for my opposition is the change to Lincoln's unique form of government. Currently, Lincoln is the only region which gives more power to the legislature than the executive. This allows for the legislature to keep the executive in check and prevent executive abuse. More importantly, it allows for new legislators to feel that they are actually important and are running a government rather than participating in one.

Not even giving the governor a true power of veto and constant referendums isn't a great model of government. Having separate chancellor, speaker, and governor positions is also unnecessary. Has there been an example of "executive abuse" that you can think of? I can't think of any. Regional governments have always been a pretty lowkey matter.

I believe that the legislature should be the strongest branch. I'd support making the legislature more proportional, if that would convince people that the legislature has more of a mandate, also I am skeptical of one person having too much power and would rather have 5 or 7 people sharing a greater amount of power. I was actually the one who proposed the amendment to allow the Chancellor and Speaker to be the same person, so it's not like I'm totally married to the concept of 3 positions. Also by executive abuse, I more so meant an executive that overreaches.

As you all are aware, the last time that this region changed its constitution there was an activity crisis, all three members elected to the assembly were recalled and the region had no legislature. No such crisis exists right now, in fact the region has during some Councils been the most active region, for instance the 2nd Council saw a total of 50-something bills, this one has seen 19.

That came after a very active summer with lots of bills passed in the Assembly. The reason this new Assembly was inactive was because it was made up of three inexperienced players and had nothing to do with the Assembly system of government. Changing government styles doesn't increase activity in any meaningful way. It's all based on the people involved. I'm sure if the Assembly had stayed around Lincoln would have the same amount of activity.

There isn't evidence of this, and even if that is true, there has been activity under the new system. The region is working fine contrary to the claims of some people. Also I do agree that constant government changes are bad, this system has only been in place for 2 years and frankly replacing it this soon shows that it was never given a free chance. Parliamentarianism works just fine in Fremont and it worked just fine in Lincoln. Meanwhile the only Presidential region, the South, can't even get its budget sorted.

Another reason for my opposition to this change is the unique manifestation of partisan politics in Lincoln. Lincoln has long been known for its deeply partisan battles. Thus a simple system of having all slots open to all legislators simply will not work, as it will encourage bill clogging as was seen in June 2019, Lincoln actually avoided the clogging as the bills that were spammed were all in the opposition queue. The government/opposition dynamic and more importantly the split of the slots based on partisanship is important for a partisan region like Lincoln as it ensures everyone's voice is heard.

Denying the minority equal opportunity to make their voices heard is undemocratic (and now that you're in the minority I'd think you would realize that). "Queue clogging" is a scare tactic which can be dealt with if it happens. Otherwise it's meaningless especially given that it hasn't occurred in 2 years. Preventative measures for something that might happen which lead to a weakening of true democracy are bad.

The majority has more of a mandate to enact its agenda. A minority of people filling a majority of slots would be very bad. I also do not support the slots system as one slot for each person is too little when some people never write bills. The government/opposition dynamic was a good way to give each side an adequate amount of slots. Having no slots at all and just having it be a free for all could easily lead to disaster and even if there wasn't clogging, bills that a majority of the legislature oppose should not occupy a majority of the legislative floor.

[S019]

I wonder who Lincoln should trust more. The incredibly experienced hands of Truman, Sestak, Tack and KaiserDave who drafted this new constitution. Or some random guy with poor grammar.

Fwiw I've been in this region for nearly 2 years and I understand how it works. I've been around for many a similar debate to these, just because the outcome here is different doesn't mean that the points raised then are now invalid. Also I don't expect Lincoln to trust me, I'm just yelling into the clouds, it doesn't matter, if this does end up failing or not working properly, I'm not going to help fix it at all.


P.S.: Don't appreciate the personal attacks, I've refrained from using it, the least you all can do is do the same.

[YE]

The last line you wrote is really petty tbh and an attitude that is not compatible with a strong culture in the game or party.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Another reason for my opposition is the change to Lincoln's unique form of government. Currently, Lincoln is the only region which gives more power to the legislature than the executive. This allows for the legislature to keep the executive in check and prevent executive abuse.

I am always up for some classical whiggery, however it must be noted that legislative supremacy is just as much a problem as executive tyranny. I would direct one's attention to a certain fictional universe with a state called North Carolina.

Generally speaking it is best to have the wings on the plane equal in length. Executive and Legislative, Federal and Regional, etc.

[S019]

So I've cooled down a bit, and while I will still vote against this, I won't actively campaign against it, mostly because it's a lost cause, mostly because I'm tired from doing so much the past few months, and thus I need a break, I will respond to some points here, so it doesn't look like I ignored them.

The last line you wrote is really petty tbh and an attitude that is not compatible with a strong culture in the game or party.

This was a poor choice of words from me and I admit it, but frankly I feel burnt out having done so much over the past 1.5 years that I needed a break, at times I felt like I was de-facto running the region (and at times, this was actually true), so this is my break. I am not in a condition to help the region even if it collapses, it might still do some stuff behind the scenes like write citizen submitted legislation, but my time as an influential figure and frontbencher in the region is coming to a close.

Another reason for my opposition is the change to Lincoln's unique form of government. Currently, Lincoln is the only region which gives more power to the legislature than the executive. This allows for the legislature to keep the executive in check and prevent executive abuse.

I am always up for some classical whiggery, however it must be noted that legislative supremacy is just as much a problem as executive tyranny. I would direct one's attention to a certain fictional universe with a state called North Carolina.

Generally speaking it is best to have the wings on the plane equal in length. Executive and Legislative, Federal and Regional, etc.

Yeah, the situation in North Carolina is pretty bad, however part of the issue in Lincoln stems from the fact that the Chancellor was supposed to be the original executive and the Governor was supposed to be a Constitutional monarch, this is why I've supported full parliamentary plans in the past, I even had one written up, but didn't bother introducing it, as it would've never passed. My concerns that this gives too much power to the executive do remain, which is why I won't vote for it, but I'm too burnt out to actually bother to campaign for the issue, and I'm leaving anyways, so I feel my input isn't particularly relevant in this case.

Anyways, that's about it, if anyone has further questions, I'm willing to answer them, since I'm more level minded now, I just didn't want to leave people on a cliff hanger here. The fact that I was feeling frustrated and overburdened meant I needed to take a break, and I want to take a moment to thank those who not only encouraged me to take that step, but supported me once I did choose to take it. Also to clarify, I will be willing to provide input to the new legislature, if needed, but that's about it, I'm willing to be a guide, not a shadow legislator.