Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) in critical condition, 6 others killed in Arizona

[J. J.]

Palin's rhetoric dramatically banalized violence in politics, and that's why some insane has decided to act.

Violence in politics has banalized since 1963, if not 1865.

From what we are hearing, the guy had some psychological problems (and may have wanted to impress Mylie Cyrus, for all I know).

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal and joined in the reading of the Constitution last week.

[J. J.]

Btw, what members of Congress have their security details? I bet Speaker have one. Others?

In the 1990's Gingrich had a single security officer that doubled as a driver; it became a political issue in one campaign.

[J. J.]

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal

I guess she didn't deserve it then.

Pelosi, who is a flaming liberal, wouldn't deserve it.  I guess you'd think Darrell Issa would, right?

Had Kelly won, he would not have deserved it.

[J. J.]

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal

I guess she didn't deserve it then.

Sorry, J.J., but it sounded like "if she were a flaming liberal then..."

No, but if the guy was acting on a political basis, as has been suggested by some of the left leaning folks here, Gifford would not be good target.

[J. J.]

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal

I guess she didn't deserve it then.

Sorry, J.J., but it sounded like "if she were a flaming liberal then..."

No, but if the guy was acting on a political basis, as has been suggested by some of the left leaning folks here, Gifford would not be good target.

Well, she'd make a more logical target than a liberal congressman in a liberal district because the killer could have felt she was a 'traitor'. Also, the guy just seems to have gone with whoever he had acces to, so the mere fact of being a democrat could have been sufficient.

How, sanely, could she have been a 'traitor' from a right wing standpoint.  She's more likely to vote with the right.  

Further, he's been described as "left wing" by people who knew him.  He met Giffords earlier and described her as "stupid and unintelligent."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all

I wouldn't put too much into his reading list.

[J. J.]

Stop trying to paint him as left or right to try and discredit your opposite. He seems like the type to be neither - just a psycho. Yes, I just posted about Palin, but I was just pointing out that it wasn't exactly Pelosi and Reid telling people do whack their guns out. It wasn't DNC chairman candidates bragging about how many guns they own, the other day.

Yes, but those comments help.  And it was the junior Democratic Senator from WV who ran commercials showing him shooting the health care bill.

John Hinckley was not opposed to Reagan's economic policies or Reagan himself; he wanted to marry Jodie Foster.  This is very probably something similar.  You can couple with the fact that Giffords isn't an extremist and would be unlikely to generate huge hatred from either the left or the right.

[J. J.]

She could probably be typecast as a 'traitor' of her constituents who were forced to undergo the evil Obamacare despite being opposed to it. And the 'left wing' tag dates from 2007, people who are that extreme and that young as a rule make huge political swings in ridiculously little time, so that doesn't really help us in determining his motives (, beyond the obvious: troubled kid with some serious anti-government posturing.)

That wouldn't make her a 'traitor' unless she was a Republican or campaigned that she would oppose it.  The only 'traitor' part would be if she was not "liberal enough."

Well, the swing could be an indication of a psychological disorder.  The answer could be, he's just nuts.

[J. J.]

Stop trying to paint him as left or right to try and discredit your opposite. He seems like the type to be neither - just a psycho. Yes, I just posted about Palin, but I was just pointing out that it wasn't exactly Pelosi and Reid telling people do whack their guns out. It wasn't DNC chairman candidates bragging about how many guns they own, the other day.

And it was the junior Democratic Senator from WV who ran commercials showing him shooting the health care bill.

Fair enough. That's also the height of irresponsibility. Manchin, trying to appeal to his conservative base as I said, is an idiot.

And again, murder doesn't make you left-wing. Murder doesn't make you right-wing either.

But it has been advertised as such by some of the leftists here.  It's like saying, all leftist are John Hinkley.

[J. J.]

Stop trying to paint him as left or right to try and discredit your opposite. He seems like the type to be neither - just a psycho. Yes, I just posted about Palin, but I was just pointing out that it wasn't exactly Pelosi and Reid telling people do whack their guns out. It wasn't DNC chairman candidates bragging about how many guns they own, the other day.

And it was the junior Democratic Senator from WV who ran commercials showing him shooting the health care bill.

Fair enough. That's also the height of irresponsibility. Manchin, trying to appeal to his conservative base as I said, is an idiot.

And again, murder doesn't make you left-wing. Murder doesn't make you right-wing either.

But it has been advertised as such by some of the leftists here.  It's like saying, all leftist are John Hinkley.

I'm not responsible for what other people post. I can understand why people would blame an authority figure like Palin, or a figure like Pelosi if had been a Republican who had been shot. You don't just go out and shoot a Congresswoman on a whim.

Hold it, I think you did contribute to it.  

Having lived through the Reagan assassination attempt, I heard very little of this type of rhetoric.  I was more conservative than I am now, just slightly.  I wasn't running around blaming Tip O'Neil.

The shooter posted a video of him burning a flag.  Now, I could very easily point how liberal that is, and that these liberals are "inspiring" this attack.  The guy however is obviously a nut.  Even if he has a Che Guevara tee shirt, I'm not going to draw the analogy.

[J. J.]

But the point is that it would never, ever be a GOP congressman.  That's just not how it works.

No, it would be GOP President, Ronald Reagan.

[J. J.]

...
How, sanely, could she have been a 'traitor' from a right wing standpoint.  She's more likely to vote with the right. 

What does sanity have to do with it? 

If you seriously wonder why she would be a target from a political point of view, just look at the rhetoric surrounding her election and also her vote for health care reform.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

By one person who knew him 4 years ago. 

He also posted a Youtube video of him burning a flag, while talking about an invisible bird on his shoulder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L1lsLU-kUw

Let's see, a man described as "left wing," and posts a video of himself burning a flag is targeting Democrats because they voted for Obamacare?

[J. J.]

From 2 months ago:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201011080039

Well, from the reaction of some of the loony leftist posters here, Beck was right.

[J. J.]

From 2 months ago:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201011080039

Well, from the reaction of some of the loony leftist posters here, Beck was right.

Actually, Beck seemed to be hoping for something like that, so he could portray himself as a victim, as so many on the right love to do.

Except, who is creating it.  It isn't the right.  It is the leftists here, and not all of them, that are trying to create this.

I'm willing to say that even though the guy was described as "left wing" and posted a video of himself burning a flag, he probably is disturbed, and not typical of the left wing.  Instead we have some of our leftists trying to tie to this to the right wing.

The leftist here fulfilled Beck's prediction, but not with any help from the right.

[J. J.]

Please see Wormguy's signature.

At least it's targeted states, not named people.

Ding ding.

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess you're still not familiar with the "targeted district" idea. It's a political term. Now tell me you guys have never used it before. 

As is the term "campaign," in terms of a military campaign, not to mention "ground forces," or "war room."

[J. J.]

I love the assumption that because he burns flags then therefore he's left-wing.

Would you care to show me some examples of right wingers burning flags.

[J. J.]

The killer was nothing more than a lunatic. He has been described as someone that hates those in power. He has views that match those of the far left and the far right. Time to accept that and stop blaming one side for this.

I agree with this, and I hate when you start becoming really sarcastic in your posts. Of course I don't fault Palin for this, she had nothing to do with it. The only thing I hold against her is her "rhetoric" shes used the past year or so. That goes for a lot of other people, and ive already said people should watch what they said whether they are Democrat or Republican.

And how do know that this guy even heard this rhetoric?  Looking at the description of him from others, this guy did not have Tea Party written all over him.  What makes even think that a guy this far out would be swayed by rhetoric, without regard to the source.

[J. J.]

Except, who is creating it.  It isn't the right.  It is the leftists here, and not all of them, that are trying to create this.

I'm willing to say that even though the guy was described as "left wing" and posted a video of himself burning a flag, he probably is disturbed, and not typical of the left wing.  Instead we have some of our leftists trying to tie to this to the right wing.

The leftist here fulfilled Beck's prediction, but not with any help from the right.

I think the point is that politicians and hosts need to self-moderate themselves and not create a dangerous climate. Just because this shooter cannot be easily fit in on the ideological scale, does not mean that inflammatory rhetoric isn't a problem.

And how was Beck inciting anything, other than possibly noting that there were loonies out there who are capable of violence; you didn't realize there were?

The shooter does not seem to have any underlying philosophy, except he hated everyone in government.

And, as Phil points out, it is silly to  to claim that words like
"targeting" have a nonpolitical meaning in the context.

[J. J.]

I'd like to here from avikshniki (or his girlfriend) on the latest medical developments.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/09/arizona.shooting/index.html

Tucson, Arizona (CNN) -- U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is able to communicate with doctors by following simple commands, a doctor said Sunday.
"We are very encouraged by that," said Dr. Michael Lemole, Jr., chief of neurosurgery at University Medical Center in Tuscon, Arizona. "I am cautiously optimistic."
Giffords remained in critical condition after a gunman shot her in the head and then opened fire on a crowd at a political meet-and-greet Saturday outside an Arizona supermarket.

...

Giffords was under sedation, said Dr. Peter Rhee, medical director of the UMC trauma center, on Sunday. Doctors will turn off the sedation periodically and allow her brain to begin functioning and "see what her progress is," Rhee added.

Swelling of the brain is the biggest threat Giffords faces, said Lemole. The bullet traveled through the left hemisphere of her brain from back to front, he said, and "not through some of those critical trajectories" that would have made recovery more difficult. The most traumatic gunshot injuries are when a bullet crosses from one hemisphere to another, he said.
Doctors removed part of Giffords' skull during surgery in order to keep the brain from pressing against it if it swells, Lemole said.

"This so far has been a very good situation," Rhee said. "Hopefully it will stay that way."
While the simple commands she can follow may be taken for granted, Lemole said, they actually indicate a high level of brain functioning.

That definitely does not sound good; I was hoping it was a "skirting wound."  Poor woman!

[J. J.]

If she pulls this out, it'll be pretty impressive, although perhaps not as impressive as Jackie Spieier's incident.

Anyways, is there any chance that the judge was targeted too, or was he just the wrong place at the wrong time? That would be an interesting coincidence since he had a large number of death threats.

Loughner had attended a Giffords' town meeting in 2007, so it's kind of likely he was after her.

[J. J.]

No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt. What people are saying is that many on the right-wing (arguably the far right-wing) in this country have created an atmosphere where this kind of political violence is normalized and subtly encouraged, to the point that something like this happening eventually isn't very surprising at all.

Bingo.

By a Democrat shooting at the Healthcare Bill?  Who won?

We've seen the same think in different times, dating back to the 19th century.

Some of the leftists on this site, though certainly not (and I have a bit more respect for Jfern now), want to make this about Palin, the Tea Party, Beck, and the GOP when there is no suggestion that Loughner:

A.  Had right wing views.

B.  Even listened to Palin or Beck.

[J. J.]

Yeah, I know. It's that damn Jew socialist from New York, so feel free to dismiss him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/opinion/10krugman.html?_r=1

When you heard the terrible news from Arizona, were you completely surprised? Or were you, at some level, expecting something like this atrocity to happen?
Put me in the latter category. I’ve had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach ever since the final stages of the 2008campaign. I remembered the upsurge in political hatred after Bill Clinton’s election in 1992 — an upsurge that culminated in the Oklahoma City bombing. And you could see, just by watching the crowds at McCain-Palin rallies, that it was ready to happen again. The Department of Homeland Security reached the same conclusion: in April 2009 an internal report warned that right-wing extremism was on the rise, with a growing potential for violence.

And that is the problem.  Is this guy "right wing?"   It is the absolute strawman argument. 

This is the guy who lists the Communist Manifesto among his favorite book, along with Mein Kampf, and talks about changing grammar. (Maybe he was a fan of Nelly.)  I'm not seeing ideology.

McVey very clearly was.