🇵🇹 Portugal's politics and elections 3.0

[Mike88]

BE leadership convention this weekend: Mariana Mortágua expected to be easily elected.

As expected, Mariana Mortágua is elected with more than 83% of the delegates votes:

https://twitter.com/RTPNoticias/status/1662821133807132672

In the speech after being acclaimed as the new coordinator of the Bloco de Esquerda, Mariana Mortágua defined as her first objectives to have parliamentary representation in Madeira again and to be the third political force in the 2024 European elections.

Ballot results:

439 (83.1%) Mariana Mortágua
  78 (14.8%) Pedro Soares
  11 (2.1%) Abstentions

Mariana Mortágua was elected, this Sunday afternoon, as the new leader of BE. She won 83% of the votes against the 15% of her opponent, former MP Pedro Soares. In a congress that had sharpe exchanges between delegates regarding the party's position regarding NATO and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Mariana Mortágua gave her first speech as party leader by promissing good election results for the party, in the Madeira elections in September/October and in next year' EU elections. She went on to criticize the PS majority government of degrading public life in Portugal and that the country cannot fall in a swamp in which lies and truths get confused. She warns the PS, accusing them of clinging on to power, that where "fear reins, the worst really happens". She added that she will fight for a better life for the Portuguese people and she does not accept that worse and worse living conditions are the fate of Portugal.

With her election, Mortágua becomes the first major party leader to be openly gay and the first women to women succession in a major party in Portugal.

[Mike88]

Intercampus poll for Jornal da Madeira on the 2023 Madeira election:

Vote share %: (after 23.6% of undecideds are distributed)

44.9% PSD/CDS (-0.3)
28.5% PS (-1.0)
  7.9% JPP (-0.5)
  6.2% CHEGA (-0.5)
  4.7% IL (+0.5)
  2.1% PAN (+0.4)
  1.7% CDU (+0.6)
  1.0% BE (-1.1)
  3.0% Others/Invalid (+1.9)

Poll conducted between 15 and 24 May 2023. Polled 404 voters. MoE of 4.90%.

[Mike88]

PSD leader Luís Montenegro removes political confidence from MP Joaquim Pinto Moreira and opens an internal inquiry on the 2017 local elections candidates nominations:

https://twitter.com/observadorpt/status/1663235371017158668

Montenegro withdraws political confidence from Pinto Moreira

If the last few weeks, and months, have been a nightmare for the Government, the PSD is also having a few nightmares. The "Tutti Frutti" corruption scandal and the corrupt "Operation Vortex", that led to the arrest of the mayor of Espinho city last January, are haunting the party. Last Friday, a PSD MP in the center of the Operation Vortex, Joaquim Pinto Moreira, announced he was returning to Parliament after suspending his seat last March when he was formally accused by the Prosecutor. But, he failed to inform either the leader or the caucus and a problem was created. This Monday, Luís Montenegro announced that he was withdrawing his political confidence in Mr. Pinto Moreira and that he no longer represents the PSD in Parliament. Now, it's unclear what Pinto Moreira will do: He could resign and a another PSD candidate from Aveiro would fill the vacancy, or he could become an Independent MP making the PSD caucus reduce to 76 seats from the current 77.

Montenegro also announced the opening of an internal inquiry on the nomination of candidates for the 2017 local elections in Lisbon, and he also announced that he will propose that party members will no longer he obligated to pay fees in order to vote in leadership ballots. One of the main points of the "Tutti Frutti" investigation was that a few local PSD members were paying up membership fees for other members in exchange for votes in a certain candidate.

[Mike88]

Update on the TAPgate that is now "merged" with the Galambagate:

- The PS and the Government continues to run away from questions on what really happened on that fateful night of 26 April and who really called the Secret Services. Every time someone talks, there's a new version of the events and this time hits directly in the PM office as his deputy secretary, António Mendonça Mendes, is under fire and embarrassed himself on Sunday while trying to divert questions from reporters regarding his role in the affair;

- Under fire, with a bad press and with people also furious within the PS, António Costa's line to defend himself and his cabinet from the attacks is to call anyone who criticizes the Government a populist. This was evident, last week, in the PM Q&A debate in Parliament when Costa accused Livre MP Rui Tavares of being infected by the "virus of populism", advising Tavares to take a "vaccine" at once. Rui Tavares said that the country was turning into a "puddle" and that the PS majority was turning into a "steamroller";

- But, despite the other argument by the Government, and the PS, that no one cares about TAPgate,  Galambagate and/or the TAP CPI and that people are just worried about the economy, cost of living and so on, TV ratings show a completely different story: Público newspaper reports that the live TV hearings in the TAP CPI have been a ratings success, with the 5 main protagonists, former TAP CEO, Alexandra Reis, Frederico Pinheiro, Galamba's chief of staff and Galamba himself, being viewed by a total of almost 1,2 million viewers. Galamba's hearing alone had an average of 326,000 viewers during a whole 7-hour hearing.

More updates will follow.

[Mike88]

PSD leader Luís Montenegro removes political confidence from MP Joaquim Pinto Moreira and opens an internal inquiry on the 2017 local elections candidates nominations:

After the decision above, Montenegro gave an interview to RTP1 that is infuriating even his own supporters within the party:

https://twitter.com/Publico/status/1663602865632337921

Montenegro causes discomfort in the PSD by admitting to losing the EU elections by “a little bit”

If Montenegro's press conference was well received by pundits and even within the PSD, the following interview to RTP1 was similar to a car crash. Quite vague in his responses and not knowing how to answer the question of with a Government sinking in so many scandals, why isn't the PSD surging instead of just being tied with the PS. But, it was his response regarding the EU elections that is embarrassing the Social Democrats. Asked what would be a good result for the party in the 2024 EU elections, Montenegro said he's working to win them but that if the party loses by 2 or 3 points, it wouldn't be that bad because in 2019 the party lost by 12 points. He added that he wouldn't resign if he loses the EU elections, contradicting past statements by himself. This response is upsetting the party, even Montenegro's own party supporters, which are labeling the remarks as "unbelievable" while others point that he's afraid of being kicked out from the leadership, thus lowering expectations so as not to take risks.

Not wanting to defend Rui Rio but, when he said similar things while party leader, all hell broke loose, but Montenegro is not that different after all...

[Conservatopia]

why isn't the PSD surging instead of just being tied with the PS

Just think back to all the jokes about "CON+5" from 2021 when it seemed no matter what they did, the Tories remained just ahead of Labour.

Then it all fell apart very, very quickly.

So far the Aliança Luso-Inglesa seems to have lead to Portugal following Britain's political trajectory since 2019, and it may well continue.

[Mike88]

why isn't the PSD surging instead of just being tied with the PS

Just think back to all the jokes about "CON+5" from 2021 when it seemed no matter what they did, the Tories remained just ahead of Labour.

Then it all fell apart very, very quickly.

So far the Aliança Luso-Inglesa seems to have lead to Portugal following Britain's political trajectory since 2019, and it may well continue.

There may be similarities and coincidences, but, I wouldn't say that Costa is like Boris, nor Montenegro is like Starmer. I mean, I don't recall reading anything on this forum, or even in the UK media, of Starmer saying that losing an election by 2 or 3 points wouldn't be that bad because the previous one was lost by 12.

Not saying that the end game will be different. Costa could bow out, but that would immediately lead to snap elections, unlike in the UK.

[Mike88]

- The PS and the Government continues to run away from questions on what really happened on that fateful night of 26 April and who really called the Secret Services. Every time someone talks, there's a new version of the events and this time hits directly in the PM office as his deputy secretary, António Mendonça Mendes, is under fire and embarrassed himself on Sunday while trying to divert questions from reporters regarding his role in the affair;

Galambagate and the Secret Services: Costa responds to a series of PSD question regarding the role of the Secret Services, but doubts and suspicions remain.

https://twitter.com/expresso/status/1664199240837476354

Costa again fails to confirm Galamba's call to the Deputy Secretary of State and criticizes the functioning of the Ministry of Infrastructure

In almost lightning speed, the PM responded to a series of PSD questions, presented yesterday morning, regarding the role of the Secret Services (SIS) in the laptop recovery of the events of 26 April night. But, Costa left unanswered a series of doubts and/or suspicions and seems to prolong this whole controversy: The PM says that the authorization to use the Secret Services didn't pass through him or his deputy secretary, leaving in the air the veracity of Minister João Galamba statement that he called the deputy secretary of the PM, António Mendonça Mendes, in order to activate the Secret Services. Costa confirmed that he received a call from Galamba during the early hours of 27 April, the new version of the events, and added that the Secret Services were coordinated with the Judiciary Police (PJ). Now, here there's another problem with the truth as the PJ wasn't coordinated with the Secret Services, because after SIS recovered the laptop, the Police also went to former Galamba's advisor house to recover the laptop and were surprised to know that it had already been collected.

Adding to this, PM Costa surprised in one response: He trashed the management of the Infrastructure ministry by Galamba and his predecessor, Pedro Nuno Santos, saying it's not normal that sensitive info is managed, and guarded, in a single laptop. The legality of this whole affair continues in open discussion.

[Mike88]

GfK/Metris/ICS/ISCTE poll for Expresso newspaper/SIC TV on the ongoing government crisis:

Q1: The Prime Minister, by not accepting João Galamba's resignation did?

64% The wrong thing
17% The right thing
19% Undecided

Q2: What should the President of the Republic have done?

53% Announce that he will be more attentive
22% Call snap elections
13% Dismiss the government without calling elections
12% Undecided

Q3: The future relationship between PR and PM will?

56% Stay the same
34% Worsen
  4% Improve
  6% Undecided

Q4: Will the government last until 2026?

52% Yes
34% No
15% Undecided

Poll conducted between 13 and 28 May 2023. Polled 1,204 voters. MoE of 2.80%.

[Mike88]

Intercampus poll for CMTV/CM newspaper:

Vote share %: (after 8.4% of undecideds are excluded)

26.3% PSD (+0.8 )
24.5% PS (-1.2)
12.9% CHEGA (-1.8 )
10.2% BE (+0.6)
  8.8% IL (+0.4)
  4.1% CDU (-0.1)
  3.9% PAN (+1.5)
  2.4% Livre (+0.1)
  2.4% CDS (+0.6)
  4.5% Others/Invalid (-0.9)

Popularity ratings: (between 1 and 5)

3.0 Rui Rocha (+0.2)
2.9 Luís Montenegro (+0.1)
2.9 Rui Tavares (+0.2)
2.9 Catarina Martins (+0.3)
2.8 Inês Sousa Real (+0.1)
2.7 Nuno Melo (+0.1)
2.5 António Costa (-0.1)
2.5 Paulo Raimundo (+0.2)
2.3 André Ventura (+0.1)

Poll conducted between 25 and 31 May 2023. Polled 611 voters. MoE of 4.00%.

[Mike88]

PS set to postpone their congress to early 2024 rather than for this September due to "election cycles":

https://twitter.com/SICNoticias/status/1664918419370541056

The decision should come out of this Saturday's meeting of the National Commission of this party, which takes place in Porto. This meeting of the Socialists' highest body is the second since the beginning of the year.

The rumour had been in the media for few weeks but now it is almost certain. The PS is set to approve a motion to postpone their party congress from September this year to early 2024. The reason for this decision is, according to the party, the election cycle that will start in 2024 and ends in 2026. With this decision, the following congress would be held in early 2026, just in time for the schedule 2026 general elections and pick, most likely, António Costa's successor as party leader. This, of course, if the ongoing term follows its normal timetable as no one has that taken for granted*. The party will also discuss the ongoing political crisis and the consequences to the party.

*Specially because even though Costa says "No, No, No" about leaving in the middle of his term, the media doesn't buy it. In fact, the media continues to press that Costa has European ambitions for 2024 and the media here says that Spanish PM is a strong candidate for the NATO leadership and that this would clear the way for Costa becoming President of the European Council by next year. Only rumours for now, but they haven't gone away.

Update: The PS congress was postponed to March 2024.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Q3: The future relationship between PR and PM will?

56% Stay the same
34% Worsen
   4% Improve
  6% Undecided

This poll result in particular catches my attention. It speaks volumes as to how pessimistic the public seems to be about the PM and President getting along.

[Mike88]

Q3: The future relationship between PR and PM will?

56% Stay the same
34% Worsen
  4% Improve
  6% Undecided

This poll result in particular catches my attention. It speaks volumes as to how pessimistic the public seems to be about the PM and President getting along.

Marcelo and Costa are now comparable to a separated couple, on bad terms, together in their kid's football match. Marcelo has been quite dry towards Costa and in almost every bill signed by the President since early May, they has been acompanied by a note that says that the bill just signed is either bad or useless. On his part, Costa has avoid talking about the President, but the distance is clear.

[Mike88]

Livre and PAN officially become members of the European Green Party (EGP):

PAN and Livre are now officially members of the European Green Party, after their candidacies were approved in the EGP congress this weekend in Viena. Livre's candidacy was approved with 89.7% of the votes and 4.3% against, while PAN received 91.7% in favour and 3.3% against. The Ecologist Party "The Greens" (PEV), the satellite party of the Communist Party who is also a member of the European Greens, is against the accession of Livre and PAN into the EU Greens saying that both are not "fully ecological parties". Nonetheless, PEV decided to not actively oppose the accession of the two parties.

Until 2019, Livre was part of Yanis Varoufakis EU movement, DiEM25, but since then left the movement and filed a candidacy to the European Greens. PAN always wanted to become a full member of the Greens.

Overall, the list of the major Portuguese parties and their European affiliation:

PS - PES
PSD - EPP
CHEGA - ID
IL - ALDE
PCP - PEL
BE - PEL/EACL
CDS - EPP
PAN - EGP
Livre - EGP

[Mike88]

Aximage poll for JN/DN newspaper and TSF radio on the ongoing government crisis:

Q1: Your assessment of the President's decision to maintain the government:

54% Yes, he did the right thing
22% No, he should have called snap elections
18% No he should have dismissed the government
  6% Undecided

Q2: Your assessment of the PM's decision to not accept Galamba's resignation:

73% Bad decision
16% Right decision
11% Undecided

Q3: Impact of "TAPgate" in Costa's image:

51% It's permanently damaged
37% It's temporarily damaged
  7% No damage at all
  5% Undecided

Q4: Will the government last until the end of its term, 2026?

44% Yes
42% No
14% Undecided

Q5: In case of snap elections, is the PSD in conditions to be an alternative?

52% No
33% Yes
15% Undecided

Q6: Your assessment of Montenegro as PM compared with Costa:

36% Worse
31% The same
22% Better
11% Undecided

Q7: Your assessment of country's economic situation since the beginning of the year:

51% Worse
24% The same
21% Better
  3% Undecided

Poll conducted between 25 and 30 May 2023. Polled 808 voters. MoE of 3.40%.

[Mike88]

Controversy erupts after the Government decided to cut Government bond rates, and is being accused of "bending over" to the Banks:

https://twitter.com/observadorpt/status/1664940566210117633

Saving Certificates. "New series is much less family-friendly"

The Government is under criticism for the content and timing of the decision to cut Government bond, Certificados de Aforro, interest rates from 3.5% to 2.5% and of limiting the amount of money to invest. This decision was announced last Friday, and was a total surprise to everybody. In the last few months, billions of euros have been removed by clients from banks due to the low rate in banking deposits, around 1% which is the 2nd lowest in all of Europe, and invested in Government bonds that had a 3.5% interest rate. Week after week, the number of people investing in bonds was increasing and it was putting pressure over the national debt, as more debt had to be borrowed. Adding to this, banks were very "subtly" expressing their discomfort with this deposit drain and were asking the Government to lower its interest rates. This was even said by the chairmain of CTT bank a few days ago, and Friday the Government made the decision to cut interest rates.

The media is painting this decision as a Government "aid" to the Banks and that the timing couldn't be worse. Economists point that the decision is a rational one, as debt was increasing and it would creat a burden for taxpayers in the future, but also say that the optics are not good to the Government. The Finance ministry was quick to say that this is not a "bending over" to the Banks and that the goal is just to stimulate competition.

Parties had different reactions: Leftwing parties accused the Government of siding with banks and of hurting people who invested in Government bonds, while rightwing parties sided with President Marcelo's plea to the banks to increase interest rates.

[Mike88]

He's baaaack: Pedro Nuno Santos appeared at the Parliamentary Committee for Economics a week before his hearing at the TAP CPI.

https://twitter.com/TSFRadio/status/1666031984639094784

Pedro Nuno says he was the only one in the last 50 years to let TAP make a profit

After 6 months in total silence, after his resignation from cabinet last December, former Infrastructure minister Pedro Nuno Santos (PNS) was heard at the Parliamentary Committee for Economics regarding TAP airlines management until 2020. If there were doubts of which PNS would appear, a fragile one or the same old person, they were quickly dissipated when Nuno Santos started speaking and it was clear he was the same old person. PNS started by praising himself for his job as Infrastructure minister and braged for being the only minister in 50 years to let TAP gave profits. After this, he started attacking the PSD and the 2015 TAP privatization. He accused the then PSD/CDS government of a privatization in which the profits would go to the private and loses to the state and that whole deal was botched up. He pressed that TAP is crucial for the country, but that it can only survive being private and in a major airline conglomerate. Regarding questions about the events during and after December 2022, PNS said that MPs will have all the time in the world to question him next week in the TAP CPI.

Overall, pundits and the media point to a Pedro Nuno Santos that doesn't seem fragile and/or downbeat and that he hasn't drop his political ambitions. They point that during the hearing, he walked between vanity and humility but always careful in talking about PM Costa. Let's wait and see what happens next week in the TAP CPI.

- The PS and the Government continues to run away from questions on what really happened on that fateful night of 26 April and who really called the Secret Services. Every time someone talks, there's a new version of the events and this time hits directly in the PM office as his deputy secretary, António Mendonça Mendes, is under fire and embarrassed himself on Sunday while trying to divert questions from reporters regarding his role in the affair;

Also, today, was the hearing of the Deputy Secretary of the PM, António Mendonça Mendes, regarding Galambagate and the use of the Secret Services:

MPs heard this afternoon the Deputy Secretary of the PM, António Mendonça Mendes regarding the whole affair around the stolen laptop with "secret info", the Secret Services (SIS) role and who talked to who and when, and the outcome was confusion, again. Mendonça Mendes confirmed he received a call from minister Galamba "reporting" the events in the ministry and that he not advised Galamba to call the SIS. This seems to contradict Galamba's statements, in the TAP CPI, that he called Mendonça Mendes and that he advised Galamba to call the Secret Services. He added that he never talked with anyone from the SIS but that the actions were legal as a laptop with important info was stolen and that authorities responded. But, he refused to answer the question of where's the legal framework for the SIS actions and who actually activated the Secret Services, as Mendonça Mendes pressed that no one "activated" the SIS but only "reported" the situation.

Doubts regarding this whole affair continue and continue... Pundits argue that the climate of suspicion is only being agravated by the Government and that the whole reason for the "cover up" is because no one wants to be liable of any wrongdoing and/or illegality in the affair.

[Mike88]

Close aids of CHEGA leader André Ventura investigated and arrested for harassing a reporter and illegal possession of a firearm:

https://twitter.com/cnnportugal/status/1666105289978904582

Ventura's right-hand man targeted by searches and a leader of Chega detained for threatening a journalist

One of André Ventura's close aids, Luc Mombito, had his house raided by the police this morning and is a formal suspect for harassing a reporter from SIC TV, Pedro Coelho, who did a report that exposed how the party harasses people online. Mombito is accused of crimes of aggravated injury and attack on freedom of the press. Another high ranking CHEGA member, Nuno Pontes, was arrested after being caught with an illegal possession of a firearm and 30 ammunitions. The investigation is being led by the National Counterterrorism Unit of the Judiciary Police (PJ).

[Mike88]

- The PS and the Government continues to run away from questions on what really happened on that fateful night of 26 April and who really called the Secret Services. Every time someone talks, there's a new version of the events and this time hits directly in the PM office as his deputy secretary, António Mendonça Mendes, is under fire and embarrassed himself on Sunday while trying to divert questions from reporters regarding his role in the affair;

Also, today, was the hearing of the Deputy Secretary of the PM, António Mendonça Mendes, regarding Galambagate and the use of the Secret Services:

MPs heard this afternoon the Deputy Secretary of the PM, António Mendonça Mendes regarding the whole affair around the stolen laptop with "secret info", the Secret Services (SIS) role and who talked to who and when, and the outcome was confusion, again. Mendonça Mendes confirmed he received a call from minister Galamba "reporting" the events in the ministry and that he not advised Galamba to call the SIS. This seems to contradict Galamba's statements, in the TAP CPI, that he called Mendonça Mendes and that he advised Galamba to call the Secret Services. He added that he never talked with anyone from the SIS but that the actions were legal as a laptop with important info was stolen and that authorities responded. But, he refused to answer the question of where's the legal framework for the SIS actions and who actually activated the Secret Services, as Mendonça Mendes pressed that no one "activated" the SIS but only "reported" the situation.

Reactions to the "vague" and somewhat contradictory statements of Mendonça Mendes, pundits are still debating if he did or did not contradict Galamba, continue:

- BE will file a complaint to the Public prosecutor's office because of the actions of the Secret Services (SIS) as government officials continue to refuse to explain the legality of SIS actions;

- PSD demands the resignation of João Galamba, as does IL and CHEGA, because the minister lied to a CPI and is considering asking the Prosecutor to criminally investigate if Galamba committed perjury in a CPI. The PS will likely block this request;

- The PS says, in public, that the case is "closed" and that the Opposition just wants to create more noise, but within the PS more and more voices are rising suggesting that Galamba's situation is more and more "precarious" and that Costa's big gamble quikly turned into a mess;

Let's wait for the next episodes.

[Benjamin Frank]

Slightly off topic, but not really:

Has anybody here read the Vanity Fair article on Portugal's economy and have any comment on it?

[Mike88]

Slightly off topic, but not really:

Has anybody here read the Vanity Fair article on Portugal's economy and have any comment on it?

No, I haven't read it, yet. I googled it and the only Portugal article I found on Vanity Fair is the Roman Abramovich citizenship article. Is that the one?

[Benjamin Frank]

Slightly off topic, but not really:

Has anybody here read the Vanity Fair article on Portugal's economy and have any comment on it?

No, I haven't read it, yet. I googled it and the only Portugal article I found on Vanity Fair is the Roman Abramovich citizenship article. Is that the one?

I didn't think it was, I'll get the magazine on Friday. That is the issue though.

[Mike88]

Slightly off topic, but not really:

Has anybody here read the Vanity Fair article on Portugal's economy and have any comment on it?

No, I haven't read it, yet. I googled it and the only Portugal article I found on Vanity Fair is the Roman Abramovich citizenship article. Is that the one?

I didn't think it was, I'll get the magazine on Friday. That is the issue though.

I went to the Vanity Fair website and there's nothing there yet. Ok, when you have the latest issue, then give us a feedback.

I normally post and discuss things about the Portuguese Economy in the Portugal's general discussion (general events) thread, but feel free to post here also. In end, the economy always has political and electoral impacts.

[Mike88]

PSD threatens to end 50-year consensus regarding the Secret Services if Costa doesn't fire the head of the services and will propose changes on how the Secret Services are fiscalized:

https://twitter.com/RTPNoticias/status/1667055916808646656

The PSD leader demands the resignation of the Minister of Infrastructure, considering that he lied. He also claims that the Information System of the Portuguese Republic is in the process of losing the trust of the largest opposition party.

In a letter to PM Costa, PSD leader Luís Montenegro threatens to end the almost 50-year consensus between PS and PSD regarding the Secret Services, saying that if Costa doesn't fire the head of the Information System of the Portuguese Republic, the PSD will no longer have confidence in the System. Montenegro, a few weeks ago, had already asked for this resignation, but Costa didn't care. Now, after the "vague" and somewhat "contradictory" statements of the PM's deputy secretary in Parliament, Montenegro presses that it's clear that Galamba lied at the CPI and that the Government abused its powers in an action that has, according to him, no legal base at all. He said that the party will propose a new model of fiscalization of the Secret Services, as the current system is not transparence nor efficient, adding that the abusive actions of last April cannot happen again.

[Mike88]

PSD threatens to end 50-year consensus regarding the Secret Services if Costa doesn't fire the head of the services and will propose changes on how the Secret Services are fiscalized:

PM Costa responded to the PSD "threat" and refuses to fire the head of the Secret Services accusing Montenegro of using the SIS for political purposes:

In a statement to the press, PM Costa responded to the PSD letter by refusing to fire the head of the Secret Services, Ambassador Graça Mira Gomes, and accused the PSD of only wanting to oppose the Government at any cost and of using the Secret Services for that purpose. The PM said he also sent 2 classified documents to prove that there was no abuse of power from the Government and that there is legal base for the Secret Services actions.

Now, how will this end? PSD breaks the consensus with the PS regarding the Secret Services, or something else happens? We'll see.