Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: coalition agreement presented

[DavidB.]

A lot of journalists swarmed into the restaurant as they found out where Pechtold and Segers were having dinner. Both had brought their partner in the negotiating team, Carola Schouten for CU and Wouter Koolmees for D66: these two have a good working relationship (worked together on the deals with Rutte-II) and were there to watch over the atmosphere. Negotiations on VVD-CDA-D66-CU, probably with a new informateur after a week or so, will take place, and both D66 and CU seem to be serious about it.

Here's an article in English that you may find interesting regarding the "completed life" (or, in Van der Staaij's words, "done with living") proposal, DC: I usually don't agree with this author at all but think she is right on the money here.

[DavidB.]

Gerrit Zalm (VVD, former Finance Minister, currently working for ABN AMRO) will be the new informateur.

[DavidB.]

The Leefbaar-D66-CDA Rotterdam city government has lost its majority following councillor Mohammed Andal's rather unexpected decision to leave Leefbaar for NIDA, the Islamic party on the council. This happened at an unfortunate moment for Leefbaar alderman Ronald Schneider, who already faced quite some political opposition after an entrepreneur's fraudulous activities had cost the municipality over 8,000,000 euros under Schneider's watch, especially as it appeared that Schneider did not have sufficient oversight over the municipal real estate agency and was therefore to blame too: he should have found out earlier. Schneider resigned before the debate on the scandal was supposed to take place. With less than nine months to go before the next municipal election, the coalition now has to look for a way forward.

New composition of the council:
Leefbaar: 13 seats
PvdA: 8
D66: 6
SP: 5
CDA: 3
VVD: 3
NIDA: 3
GL: 2
CU-SGP: 1
PvdD: 1

[DC Al Fine]

A lot of journalists swarmed into the restaurant as they found out where Pechtold and Segers were having dinner. Both had brought their partner in the negotiating team, Carola Schouten for CU and Wouter Koolmees for D66: these two have a good working relationship (worked together on the deals with Rutte-II) and were there to watch over the atmosphere. Negotiations on VVD-CDA-D66-CU, probably with a new informateur after a week or so, will take place, and both D66 and CU seem to be serious about it.

Here's an article in English that you may find interesting regarding the "completed life" (or, in Van der Staaij's words, "done with living") proposal, DC: I usually don't agree with this author at all but think she is right on the money here.

Had to take the author with a grain of salt (violence inherent to capitalism, really?), but I concur. That is horrific if true.

[mvd10]

I'm not really enthusiastic about the euthanasia law either and I completely oppose extending it to people of all ages, but those analysts blaming everything on neoliberalism annoy me. Austerity has hurt people (mainly retired people) and a lot has to improve in the healthcare sector (bureaucracy...) but it's not like we're letting people die on the streets. We also shouldn't forget the really dire budgetary situation in 2013. Immediately slashing the budget deficit to 3% at all costs during a recession probably wasn't a smart thing to do, but eventually long term healthcare costs had to be reduced. And raising taxes wouldn't have covered it. The CPB (hardly a bastion of libertarianism) calculated that the Dutch top income tax rate was actually above the revenue maximizing rate because of the relatively low concentration of high earners in the Netherlands.

[DavidB.]

Oh, of course most elderly are doing more than fine. I basically support VVDconomics here in the Netherlands and I am confident that the economic situation will improve. But there's no denying that more people in the next generations will struggle to make ends meet once they are over the age of 60, and making it easier for these people to end their lives feels perverse to me. Part of the expected increased economic revenue should be spent on improving conditions for these people.

[DavidB.]

Ipsos poll today (compared to last poll two weeks ago; compared to GE17):
VVD 36 (-1, +3)
PVV 20 (+1, -)
D66 20 (-1, +1)
CDA 17 (-1, -2)
GL 16 (+2, +2)
PvdA 8 (-1, -1)
SP 7 (-2, -7)
FvD 6 (+2, +4)
CU 6 (-, +1)
PvdD 5 (-, -)
DENK 4 (+1, +1)
50Plus 3 (-, -1)
SGP 2 (-, -1)

VVD-CDA-D66-CU 79 (-3, +3)

SP down 7 seats compared to GE17 is brutal. A rejection of Roemer's decision not to talk with Rutte, but if you vote SP you should expect ideological purity. FvD up 4 seats is less surprising but also interesting, especially since it seems as though the PVV win too. I was definitely wrong when I said, before the election, that VVD/CDA-FvD swing voters wouldn't be a thing. If FvD gain traction this may mean that it will be even more difficult to form center-right governments in the future, while the left only lose more compared to GE17...

[SunSt0rm]

Maybe SP voters flocking to FvD now. Some protest voters see Wilders as too extreme, but now have an alternative with FvD especially with Roemer was a joke leader

[Zinneke]

Maybe SP voters flocking to FvD now. Some protest voters see Wilders as too extreme, but now have an alternative with FvD especially with Roemer was a joke leader

SP voters really don't seem like the type to vote for someone like Thierry Baudet.

[mvd10]

Maybe SP voters flocking to FvD now. Some protest voters see Wilders as too extreme, but now have an alternative with FvD especially with Roemer was a joke leader

SP voters really don't seem like the type to vote for someone like Thierry Baudet.

SP voters are very eurosceptic, so Baudet should appeal to them. But I agree that it's not very likely that the SP lost a lot of seats to Baudet. The PVV still is a much better fit for SP voters than the FvD.

[DavidB.]

I do think FvD attract some SP voters (though not too many), particularly since Baudet has continued to criticize both the formation process and the EU and received a lot of media exposure. FvD also introduced a motion to cut co-payments in healthcare by 100 euros. But yes, most new FvD voters seem to come from VVD and CDA.

[mvd10]

I do think FvD attract some SP voters (though not too many), particularly since Baudet has continued to criticize both the formation process and the EU and received a lot of media exposure. FvD also introduced a motion to cut co-payments in healthcare by 100 euros. But yes, most new FvD voters seem to come from VVD and CDA.

https://www.trouw.nl/democratie/nieuw-rechts-voor-wie-minder-minder-te-ver-gaat~a5b478df/

They were mainly trying to describe VNL voters with this, but I think this also applies to FvD voters. This article basically says FvD and VNL are better off targeting areas with a high VVD/PVV vote than areas with a high SP/PVV vote.

[mvd10]

A couple of days ago elementary school teachers went on strike for higher wages. Asscher (who still is deputy PM) has demanded more money for the teachers if the current demissionary cabinet has to present a budget (which is very likely because we probably won't have a new cabinet by the end of July). If the new budget doesn't include more money for the teachers Asscher says he will withdraw all PvdA ministers from the cabinet. Asscher's demands are highly unusual, demissionary cabinets usually don't make big decisions. This is going to be very interesting, I don't think the VVD will give in (they are really annoyed by this), and if the VVD doesn't give in Asscher has to withdraw his ministers from the cabinet, otherwise he will lose all credibility.

The PvdA had 4,5 years to do something about this, and they didn't. They also had the opportunity to join the negotiations and arrange more money for the teachers, but they didn't. But I guess you have to do something when you're stuck with 9 seats .

This might also screw up Rutte's little party. If the cabinet had stayed until August 25 it would have been the longest serving postwar cabinet. But that's probably not going to happen, since the PvdA has to sign the budget somewhere in mid August and I don't think the VVD will give in.

[DavidB.]

They were mainly trying to describe VNL voters with this, but I think this also applies to FvD voters. This article basically says FvD and VNL are better off targeting areas with a high VVD/PVV vote than areas with a high SP/PVV vote.

If you look at the election result by municipality you see that FvD performed very evenly across the country, though they did noticeably better in the Randstad and in Limburg.

Of course, a right-wing party like FvD is going to be more popular with right-wing voters than with left-wing voters. You see that most voter movement toward FvD comes from the right too. I think VNL were too explicit in positioning themselves "to the right of the VVD, but more decent than the PVV" without offering a real vision. Baudet had one, managed to create momentum and attracted all sorts of voters just by focusing on his own ideas.

[DavidB.]

Minister Plasterk (Interior, PvdA) today stated that he will make it impossible to directly deposit SP elected officials' salary to the party. The SP has an internal rule according to which elected officials on all levels of government contribute their full wages to the party and in turn receive a much more meager wage. Elected officials' wages are directly deposited to the party, which also means that the officials don't have to pay taxes on it. This recently led to uproar as it became clear that SP MP Sandra Beckerman lives in social housing, which of course isn't really there for MPs but rather for people who truly have to worry about making ends meet. But now a judge has ruled that transferring the wages directly to the party's bank account is unconstitutional, as it makes the elected official dependent on the party whereas the constitutional principle is that officials are elected individually and have to be able to do their work independently, without any burdens. It is for this reason that Plasterk has decided to end this practice. This will probably mean that officials themselves have to transfer a big chunk of their wage to the SP, but since they will have to pay more taxes, it is likely that the SP will receive less money.

[DavidB.]

Much ado about nothing in Utrecht, the fourth city of the country with a population of about 350k, where a proposal by the PvdD that 50% of the snacks at municipal events be vegetarian or vegan unexpectedly received a 23-22 majority with GL and D66 support. This received quite some national media attention as the local VVD kept droning on about their opposition to this "anti-liberal" motion and even called for an emergency debate to introduce a new motion that would retract the PvdD initiative. This VVD proposal was supported by no other parties and received much scorn by other parties, who blame the VVD for creating the impression that politicians in Utrecht only bother to talk about the snacks they consume.

[mgop]

Much ado about nothing in Utrecht, the fourth city of the country with a population of about 350k, where a proposal by the PvdD that 50% of the snacks at municipal events be vegetarian or vegan unexpectedly received a 23-22 majority with GL and D66 support. This received quite some national media attention as the local VVD kept droning on about their opposition to this "anti-liberal" motion and even called for an emergency debate to introduce a new motion that would retract the PvdD initiative. This VVD proposal was supported by no other parties and received much scorn by other parties, who blame the VVD for creating the impression that politicians in Utrecht only bother to talk about the snacks they consume.

Just one more reason why is necessary for sanity and future of the country that new government does NOT involve GL and D666.

[Former President tack50]

Much ado about nothing in Utrecht, the fourth city of the country with a population of about 350k, where a proposal by the PvdD that 50% of the snacks at municipal events be vegetarian or vegan unexpectedly received a 23-22 majority with GL and D66 support. This received quite some national media attention as the local VVD kept droning on about their opposition to this "anti-liberal" motion and even called for an emergency debate to introduce a new motion that would retract the PvdD initiative. This VVD proposal was supported by no other parties and received much scorn by other parties, who blame the VVD for creating the impression that politicians in Utrecht only bother to talk about the snacks they consume.

Why would D66 support it? Doesn't such a measure (forcing food trucks at some event to serve certain food) actually go against liberalism (like the VVD apparently said).

[Former President tack50]

Much ado about nothing in Utrecht, the fourth city of the country with a population of about 350k, where a proposal by the PvdD that 50% of the snacks at municipal events be vegetarian or vegan unexpectedly received a 23-22 majority with GL and D66 support. This received quite some national media attention as the local VVD kept droning on about their opposition to this "anti-liberal" motion and even called for an emergency debate to introduce a new motion that would retract the PvdD initiative. This VVD proposal was supported by no other parties and received much scorn by other parties, who blame the VVD for creating the impression that politicians in Utrecht only bother to talk about the snacks they consume.

Just one more reason why is necessary for sanity and future of the country that new government does NOT involve GL and D666.

Well, what do you propose instead? Other than maybe VVD+CDA+PVV+CU (which would require parties removing their veto towards PVV) or something along those lines (say, replacing CU with 50+ or SGP+FvD) you probably have to include at least D66

[DavidB.]

Why would D66 support it? Doesn't such a measure (forcing food trucks at some event to serve certain food) actually go against liberalism (like the VVD apparently said).

Forcing food trucks at some event to serve certain food? The municipality just buys food. The question is whether meat needs to be the standard at municipal events. I don't think it should necessarily be, and vegetarian snacks are often consumed by non-vegetarians too, which leaves vegetarians with an empty stomach. With 50% meat and 50% non-meat everybody can enjoy whatever they like. Sounds like a very reasonable idea to me. Replacements for meat do not require the slaughter of animals, have a less negative effect on the environment and barely taste differently from real meat nowadays anyway.

[Dutch Conservative]

Much ado about nothing in Utrecht, the fourth city of the country with a population of about 350k, where a proposal by the PvdD that 50% of the snacks at municipal events be vegetarian or vegan unexpectedly received a 23-22 majority with GL and D66 support. This received quite some national media attention as the local VVD kept droning on about their opposition to this "anti-liberal" motion and even called for an emergency debate to introduce a new motion that would retract the PvdD initiative. This VVD proposal was supported by no other parties and received much scorn by other parties, who blame the VVD for creating the impression that politicians in Utrecht only bother to talk about the snacks they consume.

Why would D66 support it? Doesn't such a measure (forcing food trucks at some event to serve certain food) actually go against liberalism (like the VVD apparently said).

You're right. It's a crazy and ridiculous proposal. The fact that a party that claimes to be liberal supports it, makes it even crazier. For days the  political debate in Utrecht focussed on the question wether we should eat beef or broccoli at a municipal event that nobody ever goes to anyway. You can't make this up.

[Zinneke]

Much ado about nothing in Utrecht, the fourth city of the country with a population of about 350k, where a proposal by the PvdD that 50% of the snacks at municipal events be vegetarian or vegan unexpectedly received a 23-22 majority with GL and D66 support. This received quite some national media attention as the local VVD kept droning on about their opposition to this "anti-liberal" motion and even called for an emergency debate to introduce a new motion that would retract the PvdD initiative. This VVD proposal was supported by no other parties and received much scorn by other parties, who blame the VVD for creating the impression that politicians in Utrecht only bother to talk about the snacks they consume.

Why would D66 support it? Doesn't such a measure (forcing food trucks at some event to serve certain food) actually go against liberalism (like the VVD apparently said).

You're right. It's a crazy and ridiculous proposal. The fact that a party that claimes to be liberal supports it, makes it even crazier. For days the  political debate in Utrecht focussed on the question wether we should eat beef or broccoli at a municipal event that nobody ever goes to anyway. You can't make this up.

I think what's more absurd is that people think adding vegeterian options to menu's is somehow a betrayal of liberal principles.

[DavidB.]

In line with the verdict of the court in Alkmaar, the Court of Appeals in Amsterdam has decided that 12-year old cancer patient David has the right not to undergo chemotherapy. David has a brain tumor; with chemotherapy he has an 80% chance of surviving, without therapy only a 50% chance. The boy's parents are divorced, and while David's father wants him to be forced to undergo chemotherapy, his mother believes in "alternative medicine" and has presumably talked into the boy. Individuals have the right to decide on medical treatment by themselves from the age of 12, and according to the court there is no reason to make an exception in this case. Incredibly tragic.

[jeron]

Much ado about nothing in Utrecht, the fourth city of the country with a population of about 350k, where a proposal by the PvdD that 50% of the snacks at municipal events be vegetarian or vegan unexpectedly received a 23-22 majority with GL and D66 support. This received quite some national media attention as the local VVD kept droning on about their opposition to this "anti-liberal" motion and even called for an emergency debate to introduce a new motion that would retract the PvdD initiative. This VVD proposal was supported by no other parties and received much scorn by other parties, who blame the VVD for creating the impression that politicians in Utrecht only bother to talk about the snacks they consume.
[/quote


Why would D66 support it? Doesn't such a measure (forcing food trucks at some event to serve certain food) actually go against liberalism (like the VVD apparently said).

You're right. It's a crazy and ridiculous proposal. The fact that a party that claimes to be liberal supports it, makes it even crazier. For days the  political debate in Utrecht focussed on the question wether we should eat beef or broccoli at a municipal event that nobody ever goes to anyway. You can't make this up.

I think what's more absurd is that people think adding vegeterian options to menu's is somehow a betrayal of liberal principles.

Exactly. The PvdD proposal only means that 50% of the snacks are vegetarian. That means everyone can still eat meat if they so desire and the vegetarians can have their vegetarian snack. The only ridiculous proposal is the VVD proposal.

[DC Al Fine]

Are the negotiations taking longer than usual or is this pretty typical for Dutch cabinet formations?