A Second Chance - CONCLUSION
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  A Second Chance - CONCLUSION
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Question: Should I go on?
#1
Yes
 
#2
I don't care
 
#3
No
 
#4
Hell No!
 
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Total Voters: 105

Author Topic: A Second Chance - CONCLUSION  (Read 290063 times)
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Cathcon
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« Reply #700 on: August 25, 2011, 05:27:12 PM »

Sad

Not only Hatfield just died, but also you made him lose, monster.

Go burn in hell!

Dude. First off, you don't believe in Hell, so I don't really care about you saying "Go burn in hell!". Second off, Hatfield will have a very successful political career, I'm telling you as I've been trying to reassure others. Trust me, he leaves a lasting legacy upon the United States and in fact the world in this tl.
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« Reply #701 on: August 25, 2011, 05:40:12 PM »


Honest to God, I've been waiting quite a while to use this photo, so I'm just gonna say that it might not be Nader. Wink
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« Reply #702 on: August 25, 2011, 10:41:56 PM »

I like Gravel.
McCarthy/Gravel is even better than Carter/Mondale =)
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« Reply #703 on: August 27, 2011, 03:44:54 PM »

Bump. Going to an Alice Cooper concert today. Tomorrow will most likely be homework day, however, there's the possibility I'll be able to deliver two updates tomorrow: Gene declares his runningmate, and Reagan releases his short list.
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« Reply #704 on: August 27, 2011, 03:54:51 PM »

Also, I've introduced the timeline to alternatehistory.com, where I'm currently working on "The Rise of Progressivism" (link can be provided). The link to where I'll have the tl on alternatehistory.com is this:
http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=208822
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« Reply #705 on: September 03, 2011, 06:18:56 PM »

update now!!
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« Reply #706 on: September 03, 2011, 07:14:15 PM »


Hmmmm... I could try to get out Reagan's short list. Also, some developments regarding Gene.
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« Reply #707 on: September 03, 2011, 08:25:28 PM »

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« Reply #708 on: September 05, 2011, 05:57:39 PM »

July 10th, 1980
Reagan Camp Releases Short List,
Includes Hatfield!
With the Republican National Convention opening in only four days, the Reagan campaign has released its short list for President. The name includes several names that this very newspaper included in its own list of potential options for Governor Reagan to choose for Vice-President. Looking down at the list, the reader may notice that the so-called "short list" is not very short. The main surprise was finding Oregon Senator and former primary opponent Mark Hatfield included on the list. It seems that Reagan's strange polling in the North-West has led to Hatfield being an attractive candidate for Vice-President. The total list is:
  • Former Vice-President Gerald Ford of Michigan
  • Senator Mark Hatfield of Oregon
  • Senate Minority Whip Ted Stevens of Alaska
  • Governor Daniel J Evans of Washington
  • Senator James Baker of Texas
  • Senator James L Buckley of New York
  • Senator Richard Schweicker of Pennsylvania
  • Congressman Donald Rumsfeld of Illinois
  • Governor Robert D Ray of Iowa
  • Senator John Chaffee of Rhode Island
  • Congressman Jack Kemp of New York
  • Senator John Tower of Texas
  • Senator Bob Dole of Kansas
  • Congressman Ron Paul of Texas
  • Senator Thad Cochran of Mississippi
  • Senator William Roth of Delaware

A number of names on this list are  virtual unknowns. Not even political observers expected some of these names, which seem out of the blue. However, if one looks more closesly, there are certain trends which can be seen. The first would be the North-West and Rural Mid-West. This includes names like Ted Stevens, Mark Hatfield, Daniel J Evans, Robert D Ray, and Bob Dole. They are meant to take away either support by North-Westerners from McCarthy or take away support by Rural Mid-Westerners of McCarthy. Current polling indicates that McCarthy could have a signiciant impact on the upper West, maybe going as far South as Nebraska and Kansas, and ranging from Wisconsin to Washington State, and North to Alaska. It is obvious that Reagan wants to prepare for the amount of support McCarthy's raking in from those areas. The second group includes North-Easterners and Yankees: Ford, Rumsfeld, Buckley, Kemp, Schweicker, Roth, and Chaffee. This group is aimed at a variety of different voting sets in the area from the Industrial Mid-West to the North-East: "Older" Republicans, "Yankee" Republicans, fiscal cosnervatives, minorities, blue-collars, Catholics, moderates, Liberals, and Independents. It is the most varied of the three groups, but could have much potential impact on the voting patterns of Michigan, New Jersey, Connecticut, and maybe even the more Democratic states of Pennsylvania and New York. The last group would be of Southerners: Cochran, Tower, Baker, and Paul. While Howard Baker, the GOP's most prominent figure in the South has declined interest in the Vice-Presidency, others such as the Bush friends James Baker and John Tower, newcomer Thad Cochran of Mississippi, and rising star Ron Paul, also of Texas, have not declined interest.

However, the Vice-Presidency should not be merely about elect-ability. It should also be about the main that might lead the nation in the even of Reagan's death, or the man most likely to succeed Reagan in 1988, or the man best set up for the nomination in 1984 should Reagan lose now. What man would be most qualified? There are a number of consummately qualified people on Reagan's list. However, there are outliers. Ron Paul? He's only won three elections in his life, each for the same district in Texas. Not only that, he's only been in politics a number of six years, and in one of the least qualifying positions for a potential national candidate. Others, such as Rumsfeld appear the same way. It is believed that all this will come to a head at the Republican National Convention in Detroit in a couple days. Until then, Governor Reagan will most likely keep the rest of us guessing.
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« Reply #709 on: September 06, 2011, 10:32:43 AM »

Regan/Hatfield?? That could be an unbeatable ticket... hopefully, he chooses Towers or Dole =)
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« Reply #710 on: September 07, 2011, 07:47:02 PM »

July 11th, 1980:
A phone conversation between Sacramento and Washington DC...
    Reagan: The nomination would set you up great for 1984 or 1988. You could tie in Northern Conservatives and easily bring in your home state.
    Rumsfeld: Mr. Reagan, when I announced my candidacy in early 1979, I wasn't running for Vice-President. At this stage, I'm working on my re-election bid. You don't need me and you don't need my support. It's already yours. What you do need is someone either to take the fight to Kennedy in New York and Pennsylvania, or someone who can make sure Gene doesn't break through in the North-West. Trust me Ron, you don't need me on the fight, much as I appreciate it.
    Reagan: That's all very well understood, Don. Besides, I doubt that country would easily go for the team of Ronald and Donald.
    Rumsfeld: Ha! Well, you've got me on that.
    Reagan: Is there anyone you'd like to recommend?
    Rumsfeld: Like I said, someone in the North-East or North-West. The South and the South-West should be solid for you. I'd love to see Percy, Hatfield, Chaffee, or Buckley appear on the ticket. They're all very qualified, and they were obviously qualified enough to end up on your short list.
    Reagan: Oh, well thanks Don.
    Rumsfeld: Anytime, Ron.

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Among Reagan's short list were very few men he actually trusted. Buckley, Rumsfeld, Tower, and a few others were the ones he'd have liked to have be his Vice-President. Others, such as Iowa Governor Robert D Ray and Senate Minority Whip Ted Stevens were only possibilities in the fact that they were from states that were deemed potential swing states. Rumsfeld's advice had been, in short, to merely follow his short-list. Pat Buchanan was pushing heavily for James L Buckley. Barry Goldwater Sr. seemed to favor Tower as one of the few sane men on the list. Edwin Meese claimed he would support whatever decision Reagan made, while campaign manager William J Casey advised Reagan choose Daniel J Evans, the former Governor of Washington, a purely political choice, though one that would lend eight more years of executive experience to the ticket, something Reagan, a one term Governor, could use. With that, Reagan's inner circle was obviously divided.
-Republicans in Revolution, Bob Woodward, (c) 2007
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« Reply #711 on: September 07, 2011, 10:37:28 PM »

I can see Ron's RM:
South-Easterner
Minority
Pro-life, but liberal
Non-governor
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« Reply #712 on: September 08, 2011, 07:12:21 PM »

I can see Ron's RM:
South-Easterner
Minority
Pro-life, but liberal
Non-governor

Hmmmm.... There might not be much in the way of that. Despite winning DC 1964-1972, Democrats have made heavy gains in the minority vote once again since Jack's passing of the final CRA in his second term. DC went heavily for Kennedy and while McCarthy has the liberals, RFK has the minorities. Any idea on who would fit that description?
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« Reply #713 on: September 08, 2011, 07:45:41 PM »

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« Reply #714 on: September 08, 2011, 08:22:31 PM »

You know Reagan well with the "Ronald and Donald" comment.

It was a good guess. Smiley
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« Reply #715 on: September 08, 2011, 08:34:26 PM »

July 13th, 1980
Republican National Convention Opens Tomorrow!
Last Troops Leave Palestine!

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...Speaks President Kennedy. With the last troops leaving Palestine earlier today, Kennedy has declared victory and his finally found his achievement in the face of the bleak election. The war, which Kennedy began to campaign against in late 1975 as it became more unpopular, has become more of a drag on President Kennedy than his successor, George Bush. However, Kennedy now has his achievement, being not just the one to win the Palestinian War, but also the second Kennedy to clean up a "Republican War". With this, Kennedy's approvals and polling have taken a turn for the better and McCarthy has been the candidate to suffer the most, going down from his previous ten percent now to six percent in the polls. With this, five and a half years of fighting, and over 4,000 American troops dead, ended. The war has had a rocky political standing, being supported in 1975, opposed in 1976, an unknown throughout 1977 and 1978, and on its way out throughout nearly all of 1979 and 1980, even as anti-war protests heated up and McCarthy gained momentum.


As was said, the war's history is a complex one. Since the creation of Israeli, Palestine has posed a threat to the nation, which is supported by the United States. During the 1960's, the Six Day War was but one of many brushes the two nations experienced. Tensions only continued to build throughout the early seventies, reaching their peak at the Munich Massacre at the 1972 Olympics in Munich. What followed after the deaths of a number of the athletes were a number of United Nations and America sponsored justice-seeking missions into Palestine, aided very much by Israeli. By the time George Bush was inaugurated, tensions were once again at an all time high. In the shakeup of his foreign policy team in the months that followed, National Security Adviser Henry M Jackson, who had previously served as John F Kennedy's Secretary of State, was appointed Special Envoy to Palestine on August 9th, 1974. On December 19th, 1974, Jackson was killed while being transported from his residence to a meeting with Yassar Arafat. This was only a symptom of the troubles that besieged the nation and its relationship with the West and with Israel. It was also the straw that broke the camel's back as it initiated massive American retaliation in early 1975, including America's first Declaration of War since World War II. However, the war's popularity soon tilted South as by late 1975, the focus changed from overthrowing the government, an easy task, to rebuilding the government, filling it with American friendly officials, and battling a dangerous insurgency. Though Senator Kennedy voted for the Declaration of War, and was known as one of his brother's most ardent supporters during the Vietnam War, he made serious headway with an anti-war yet socially moderate to conservative and fiscally moderate campaign. Following his narrow election over President Bush in 1976, Kennedy made only faint-hearted attempted to win the War until the 1979 vote to set a permanent withdrawal date. While the official date was set for June, this is being termed as the final withdrawal, despite American troops remaining at base in Palestine. So ends the Palestinian War, at least for now.

Meanwhile, the Republican National Convention opens tomorrow in Detroit, Michigan, ready to nominate Governor Ronald Reagan of California for President and not knowing quite who will be nominated for Vice-President. Possibilities range from Oregon Senator Mark Hatfield to Texas Senator John Tower, with some even attempting to throw out former Attorney General Edward Brooke as a runningmate despite not appearing on Governor Reagan's shortlist. With delegates waiting in the wings and supporters readying  the hall at a hurried pace, the Republican Party waits with baited breath to view its 1980 ticket, a ticket that could potentially be elected the next President and Vice-President of the United States of America. Despite the fact of Reagan's lead throughout the campaign season, now, even as the convention prepares to open, the end of the Palestinian War has given Kennedy a significant bump in the polls, and is, for the first time since 1979, is given a good lead over his Republican opponent, despite potential running-mates that have been thrown in the mix.[/i]

Approval Ratings
Do you approve of the job Robert F Kennedy has done as President?
Approve-47%
Disapprove-43%
Unsure-10%

Opinion Polling
Do you view the end of the Palestinian War as a foreign policy achievement for President Kennedy?
Yes-73%
No-24%
Unsure-3%

Election Polling
With Kennedy's foreign policy victory today, building enthusiasm among Republicans in anticipation of the Republican National Convention seems to have been curved and for the first time, President Kennedy is in fact leading both Governor Reagan and former Senator McCarthy.

Red-President Robert F Kennedy (D-CA)/Vice-President George McGovern (D-SD), 200 electoral votes
Blue-Governor Ronald Reagan (R-CA)/TBA??, 194 electoral votes
Green-Former Senator Eugene McCarthy (FL-MN)/TBA??, 10 electoral votes
Gray-Tossup, 134 electoral votes
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« Reply #716 on: September 08, 2011, 08:34:53 PM »

Well it seems I've made it to 49 pages!
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« Reply #717 on: September 09, 2011, 06:23:29 AM »

I can see Ron's RM:
South-Easterner
Minority
Pro-life, but liberal
Non-governor

Hmmmm.... There might not be much in the way of that. Despite winning DC 1964-1972, Democrats have made heavy gains in the minority vote once again since Jack's passing of the final CRA in his second term. DC went heavily for Kennedy and while McCarthy has the liberals, RFK has the minorities. Any idea on who would fit that description?

Fmr. Sec. of Education Elizabeth Dole.
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« Reply #718 on: September 09, 2011, 08:15:58 AM »

So, GA still goes for Kennedy? Interesting. It may change when Reagan announces his VP, however.
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« Reply #719 on: September 09, 2011, 06:33:14 PM »

I can see Ron's RM:
South-Easterner
Minority
Pro-life, but liberal
Non-governor

Hmmmm.... There might not be much in the way of that. Despite winning DC 1964-1972, Democrats have made heavy gains in the minority vote once again since Jack's passing of the final CRA in his second term. DC went heavily for Kennedy and while McCarthy has the liberals, RFK has the minorities. Any idea on who would fit that description?

Fmr. Sec. of Education Elizabeth Dole.

Interesting choice, though she herself was more Conservative than her husband. I hadn't thought of her.
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« Reply #720 on: September 09, 2011, 07:16:53 PM »

I can see Ron's RM:
South-Easterner
Minority
Pro-life, but liberal
Non-governor

Hmmmm.... There might not be much in the way of that. Despite winning DC 1964-1972, Democrats have made heavy gains in the minority vote once again since Jack's passing of the final CRA in his second term. DC went heavily for Kennedy and while McCarthy has the liberals, RFK has the minorities. Any idea on who would fit that description?

Fmr. Sec. of Education Elizabeth Dole.

Something totally random...the Mayor of Tampa, Bob Martinez.
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« Reply #721 on: September 10, 2011, 01:35:51 PM »
« Edited: September 10, 2011, 10:00:37 PM by Never Forget »

July 14th, 1980
Republican National Convention Opens!
Republican VP Pick Still Unknown!

Even as the Republicans prepare to nominate Ronald Reagan for President at Detroit's Joe Louis Arena, the party has no idea who will be occupying the ticket. Potential names range from John Tower to Mark Hatfield to James Buckley to Robert Taft Jr. to John Chaffee and everywhere in between. Meanwhile, polling tells a strange story. The North-East, the South, and the North-West, all potential swing regions, each have their favored candidates. Polling Reagan with potential Vice-Presidential picks, the results came up rather interesting.

Gerald Ford

Reagan-239 electoral votes
Kennedy-138
McCarthy-10
Tossup-151

John Tower

Reagan-253
Kennedy-172
McCarthy-21
Tossup-92

Mark Hatfield

Reagan-179
Kennedy-173
McCarthy-10
Tossup-176

John Chaffee

Kennedy-177
Reagan-171
McCarthy-10
Tossup-180

James Buckley

Reagan-237
Kennedy-126
McCarthy-21
Tossup-154

These are but a few samples of possibilities of whom Reagan will choose. The biggest surprise was the very good results of Reagan being paired with Buckley, someone in fact to Reagan's Right. Buckley's work in bringing Catholics away from the Democratic ticket and his North-Eastern roots have helped battle the obvious impediment of his unapologetic Conservatism in places like New York and Connecticut.

Ford seems to do a similar job, but not with Catholics or blue collars, but with Independents, Liberal Republicans, and Moderate Republicans. His good record on fiscal discipline, his wide name recognition, and his previous experience in the office of Vice-President are obvious pluses. Chaffee, a Liberal Republican, seems not to have the uniting affect that Buckley or even Ford has. While he does gain massive ground in New England and the North-East, but losing tremendous ground in the South while gaining none in the West. He does not have the appeal to blue collars that Buckley has, instead seeming to appeal to a class of suburbans, Independents, and blue bloods. However, it does not have nearly the same effect that Ford or Buckley might have on the ticket.

Now we come to the Western Hatfield and Southern Tower. They both make tremendous gains for Reagan in their particular regions, however, lose support in the East as well as for Hatfield the South and Tower the West. Out of various examples, we've seen Ron Paul get worse than Chaffee, and various others rank in between. However, one uniting conclusion is that, at least at this stage, the selection of a Vice-Presidential nominee will be very important. Despite good results for certain potential VP picks, as of now, President Kennedy leads Governor Reagan by a slim margin.
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« Reply #722 on: September 10, 2011, 01:36:31 PM »

I can see Ron's RM:
South-Easterner
Minority
Pro-life, but liberal
Non-governor

Hmmmm.... There might not be much in the way of that. Despite winning DC 1964-1972, Democrats have made heavy gains in the minority vote once again since Jack's passing of the final CRA in his second term. DC went heavily for Kennedy and while McCarthy has the liberals, RFK has the minorities. Any idea on who would fit that description?

Fmr. Sec. of Education Elizabeth Dole.

Something totally random...the Mayor of Tampa, Bob Martinez.

Interesting as well... The future Governor of Florida, right?
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« Reply #723 on: September 10, 2011, 03:05:12 PM »
« Edited: October 01, 2011, 10:25:49 PM by Cathcon »

The 1980 Republican National Convention was magnificent. Held in the Joe Louis Arena in Detroit, Michigan, it would be the third Republican National Convention I would visit following 1972 and 1976. Following my work with George H. W. Bush in 1976 and my successful running of George W. Bush's Congressional campaign in 1978, I had joined the Reagan camp early on. By then, given my work on previous campaigns as well as my tenure as President of the College Republicans, I was more than just some page or a staffer. By then I was Reagan's Deputy Chief of Staff, working directly under Edwin Meese, himself a former Republican National Committee Chairman. At the convention, I would be directing meetings with different potential running-mates. In the process I would be meeting the now famous faces of people like Jack Kemp and Ron Paul who at that point were only Congressmen. During the meetings, I would be sitting silently in the corner of Reagan's office, watching him, and taking notes.

Reagan meeting with Congressman Ron Paul of Texas

Late into the first night of the convention, as Reagan would be both in the audience watching speeches by Edward Brooke, Peter Domenici, and George Romney, and at the same time near inhumanly meeting with potential Vice-Presidential candidates, it was clear that the meetings would extend into the next day. Near midnight, I received a visit from Robert Finch, the former Governor of California and at that point back to being Chief of Staff for former President Nixon. He told me that Nixon wanted to see Reagan. I immediately told "the chief".

I was excluded from the meeting. However, once it was over, Reagan informed me that Nixon wanted him to choose a strong Centrist with foreign policy experience. Choices ranged from Senate Minortiy Whip Ted Stevens to former Ambassador to the United Nations Anne Armstrong. Others were former Defense Secretary John Eisenhower, the son of the late President Eisenhower, Senator Charles Percy of Illinois, John Chaffee a former military man who had served as Governor of Rhode Island and by that point was its two-term Senator. Reagan had gathered that Nixon sought another surrogate, like Agnew and to some extent even Bush had been. Reagan, however, had no such intention and in fact seemed more determined to not choose one of "Nixon's boys". I guess that explains who his choice finally came out to be.

The next day started bright and early with yet another meeting with former Vice-President Ford, a man who, though working with him I had come to greatly admire and respect. Ford, despite having the support of Nixon, was believed to be much more Independent than Nixon might have liked. It was hoped that a Reagan/Ford ticket could have been a surefire winner, especially given how recent polling had indicated Ford's widespread support throughout the party. However, Ford still insisted on having selection of certain cabinet choices. He insisted on having former National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger be appointed Secretary of State, economic adviser and in fact Reagan friend Alan Greenspan appointed an economic position, and George Romney and Nelson Rockefeller given appointments. Though Ford was to the Right of both men on most issues, he was familiar with them due to his long career in politics and wanted an overall more ideologically diverse cabinet than Reagan might have made on his own. Finally, negotiations broke up. Reagan was willing to give Kissinger the position in State and Greenspan a position, however was firmly unwilling to have any man dictate his cabinet. Meanwhile, Ford admitted he wasn't incredibly interested in the job and would only stay on for one term anyway. What Republicans hoped might be a "dream ticket" between two very experienced and well known men, one with former experience as a Vice-President, fell apart. You have to consider how the world might have been different with every Vice-Presidential choice that wasn't picked.



Throughout the second day, I was assigned to other duties as Edwin Meese turned to directing the meetings. Taking a break near the end of the day, I looked over to see Pat Buchanan yelling "Holy sh**t!" into a telephone. The typical Irish foul mouth came out as I watched him, sipping my lemonade. When he finally hung up, I asked "what was that about?" "Reagan chose his running mate."
-Courage and Consequence, Karl Rove

July 15th, 1980
Governor Ronald Reagan meets with yet another potential running-mate in his suite at the Republican National Convention.
    Reagan: ...trust me, I will work to balance the budget. I'll adopt some of your policies.
    Person: How can I be sure of it? What asset is their for me to bring to the ticket?
    Reagan: I give you my word. As for what assets you bring, you bring experience. You're probably one of the most experienced people in this entire stadium for the job. This will not only unite the party, It can bring in nearly all regions of the nation despite the closeness of our states.
    Person: I'll have to tell my family. However, I can tell you that I'm willing to do it.
    Reagan: Thanks, that's all I ask! You can call my suite once you've talked with them!


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« Reply #724 on: September 10, 2011, 03:47:51 PM »

July 16th, 1980
It's Hatfield!

Just earlier today, Governor Ronald Reagan of California, the Republican nominee for President of the United States, announced his Vice-Presidential pick, Senator Mark Hatfield of Oregon. A surprise pick, and a former primary rival. Many were expecting a variety of other candidates, including Gerald Ford, John Tower, Ted Stevens, or John Chaffee. Instead, the so-called "hippie Republican" and self described "Evangelical Progressive" has been chosen by Conservative poster-boy Ronald Reagan to be on the Republican Party's Presidential ticket. The convention was shocked and awed when Governor Reagan came before them today to announce his choice.
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With this, Hatfield entered from stage left, greeting the crowd and standing next to Reagan. The man who had been his prime opponent for the nomination only two months ago would now be sitting on the lower rung of the ticket.
Upon taking the podium to a thunderous round of applause and a shocked look from supporters and detractors alike, Hatfield himself began to speak.
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In one of the loudest convention applauses one could have heard in a lifetime, probably the first time the Republican Party showed such unity since 1956, and possibly before that, Hatfield left the stage, clearing the way for other speakers including Nancy Reagan, Antoinette Hatfield, George Bush, and John Eisenhower. The Republican Party has found its ticket for this November and it seems largely content. Meanwhile, Kennedy looks to lock up the nomination of the shell of the former Democratic Party and Eugene McCarthy will nominate his Vice-Presidential candidate a week before the Democratic National Convention. The race goes on.
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