2020 Census Questions Submitted to Congress

[Tender Branson]

Good to see that the 2020 Census will include the citizenship question again.

The citizenship status is an integral part of any census around the world and scrapping it was a step back IMO.

[Tender Branson]

Good to see that the 2020 Census will include the citizenship question again.

The citizenship status is an integral part of any census around the world and scrapping it was a step back IMO.

Hopefully the Democrats strip this after they win back the House in 2018. Don't want a rigged Census.

Please stop playing the victim here (that's also an advice to other Democrats in general).

And I'm a Democratic-leaning person myself (if I were to live in the US of course).

The Census is not "rigged", just because it includes a question for citizenship. That was the case in all censuses (or censi ??) so far and was never really a controversial issue, until some thought to politicize it.

A) answering the census questions do not lead to deportation, because the census answers have strict privacy protection. That Democrats continue to use this line of argument is really sad and annoying. Instead, they should strongly communicate it to minorities and immigrants ahead of the Census that by taking part in the Census, they are not deported or face any other personal consequences.

B) immigrants do not only have rights, but also duties. Filling out the census form and declaring that they are non-citizens is one of those duties.

[Tender Branson]

Good to see that the 2020 Census will include the citizenship question again.

The citizenship status is an integral part of any census around the world and scrapping it was a step back IMO.

Hopefully the Democrats strip this after they win back the House in 2018. Don't want a rigged Census.

Please stop playing the victim here (that's also an advice to other Democrats in general).

And I'm a Democratic-leaning person myself (if I were to live in the US of course).

The Census is not "rigged", just because it includes a question for citizenship. That was the case in all censuses (or censi ??) so far and was never really a controversial issue, until some thought to politicize it.

A) answering the census questions do not lead to deportation, because the census answers have strict privacy protection. That Democrats continue to use this line of argument is really sad and annoying. Instead, they should strongly communicate it to minorities and immigrants ahead of the Census that by taking part in the Census, they are not deported or face any other personal consequences.

B) immigrants do not only have rights, but also duties. Filling out the census form and declaring that they are non-citizens is one of those duties.

The bolded is false. The Census included the question up through 1950 (not sure exactly how far back), but it was dropped in 1960 out of concern that it conflicted with anti-discrimination considerations and the interest in ensuring a complete count and has not been included in any Census from 1960-2010. One should hardly be surprised that Censuses before 1960 were not exactly non-discriminatory.

Still, if the privacy argument is properly communicated ahead of the Census - then I see no problem how the Census would be discriminating ...

If everyone knows that checking the immigration box won't lead to deportation, then it's the fault of the remaining paranoid/ignorant immigrants if the Census leads to an undercount. But the census exercise in itself is fair.

[Tender Branson]

The Citizenship question will probably lead to Texas and maybe Florida not getting their 3rd and 2nd additional congressional seats, respectively.    

California might miss out on gaining one as well, but that was already iffy anyway.

That's a ludicrous assumption based on milk-maid-calculations ...

If Democrats use their power after 2018 to launch a significant information campaign for minorities/immigrants and making them aware that participating in the Census will lead to no deportations, there won't be a significant undercount. If they don't, the Democrats are also to blame for a likely undercount.

Democrats for example have a vast email-database of minorities/immigrants from their campaigns, so they should send out mass emails to them encouraging them to participate in the census and also tell them to ask their undocumented friends/neighbours etc. to participate.

Otherwise, this would only be a victory to Trump and nobody wants this.

[Tender Branson]

Please stop playing the victim here (that's also an advice to other Democrats in general).

And I'm a Democratic-leaning person myself (if I were to live in the US of course).

Seems irrelevant in this case. You are notoriously laser-focused on immigration, so playing the "I'm a Democrat too" card doesn't make it sound any more reasonable coming from you.

The Census is not "rigged", just because it includes a question for citizenship. That was the case in all censuses (or censi ??) so far and was never really a controversial issue, until some thought to politicize it.

I'd say there is an argument to be made behind the motives for this. The fact that they threw in the laughable "Voting Rights Act" excuse shows they have something to hide. I'm just curious whether it's a matter of federal funds or setting up a future case where they can be allowed to draw maps by eligible citizen voters, which would give them another advantage in redistricting, or both. To think that Republican actions here are innocent is incredibly naive. They are leveraging their power at the federal level to help them win future elections, just like they have done in the past.

A) answering the census questions do not lead to deportation, because the census answers have strict privacy protection. That Democrats continue to use this line of argument is really sad and annoying. Instead, they should strongly communicate it to minorities and immigrants ahead of the Census that by taking part in the Census, they are not deported or face any other personal consequences.

Really sad and annoying. Right. As if they haven't done it before.

Just telling people they have nothing to worry doesn't mean anything if they think that those assurances are lies, or at least likely to be broken on orders from Trump admin officials or Trump himself. What you're saying here sounds like a version of "just trust the govt," which I can't possibly see why you would think would work when ICE is rounding up people everywhere in pretty sneaky scenarios, such as at court houses and rallies.

Funny how many Democrats (like you) are now in the "Do not trust the government" camp ... after it was the Republicans under Obama.

The Census operation is now pretty safe and guarantees privacy for those who participate. Even Trump is bound to this. If he cheats and instructs Census officials to submit data of undocumented people to ICE, this would be against the law and a massive abuse of power, which would result in court cases and impeachment.

[Tender Branson]

Funny how many Democrats (like you) are now in the "Do not trust the government" camp ... after it was the Republicans under Obama.

It's more for certain actions which he has displayed willingness to engage in. Why would I think undocumented immigrants should trust this? Trump made immigration a central pillar of his campaign. Of course they shouldn't trust him. If Obama had run a similar campaign, it would be equally as true (actually, given the deportations under Obama, it should be true either way).

Trust in government has to be based on the people who run said govt to some degree.

The Census operation is now pretty safe and guarantees privacy for those who participate. Even Trump is bound to this. If he cheats and instructs Census officials to submit data of undocumented people to ICE, this would be against the law and a massive abuse of power, which would result in court cases and impeachment.

Court cases maybe, impeachment is doubtful unless Democrats control the House, which is still almost meaningless unless they can line up enough votes in the Senate. Also this depends on him winning reelection as well, which isn't really a given right now.


Given that Trump has ICE at his disposal already, and that the idea of more deportations from this census change depends on who is POTUS post-2020, my real concern is throwing in the census question for cynical and/or misguided reasons, which can reduce the response rates from people who don't trust the government. This can include families of undocumented immigrants - legal, citizen family members.

I'd be more OK with this if they added it now for the 2030 census (not the one coming up in just ~2 years). That way they can do numerous rounds of fully-funded testing, and not cheap out on it. I'd like them to prove that it won't cause problems. I'd also have less of a problem with this if Congress passed a law barring citizenship data from being shared with states for redistricting purposes. I'm not taking their word for it, and I don't expect a lot of other non-Republicans to either.

Why only for 2030 ?

That sounds rather politically motivated to me ...

The citizenship question can easily be implemented for the 2020 Census already, there's still enough time left. And besides, the Census Bureau will conduct several final test census operations over the next 2 years to see if the question will lead to lower response rates or not. Lower response rates are generally a trend recently, which have nothing to do with immigration or citizenship status, but more because people have become lazy and indifferent about surveys etc.

So, that's exactly why the Democrats need to step in after 2018 and launch a massive participation drive among their immigrant base and try to inform them about the Census process and that they have nothing to fear by taking part in it (otherwise they can also inform them that they are going to take the Trump organisation to court or will try to impach him ... which could not be needed anyway if he's defeated in 2020).

[Tender Branson]

Anyway, the US Census process is extremely politicized IMO.

Here in Austria, or in Scandinavia, people don't even realize there's a census going on because it is register-based and current, in-depth data can be instantly compiled for every quarter of the year for a low cost. Including citizenship data of course.

And in the US, there's a hassle about this stuff even if it's done only every 10 years ...

[Tender Branson]

Please stop playing the victim here (that's also an advice to other Democrats in general).

And I'm a Democratic-leaning person myself (if I were to live in the US of course).

Seems irrelevant in this case. You are notoriously laser-focused on immigration, so playing the "I'm a Democrat too" card doesn't make it sound any more reasonable coming from you.

What's wrong with being "laser-focused on immigration" ? I'm merely pointing out wrong and dangerous developments when it comes to mass immigration.

Yet I'm still largely a Social Democrat here in the European sense and a Democrat in the US sense. Just a more common-sense old-school one like in the 1970s, when there was a national consensus among these parties that mass-immigration = bad and would bring additional crime and despair to Europe.

Why would anyone want these additional problems being brought here ? We already have enough of our own problems to solve.

If someone is staging a surprise Facebook party on the lawn of your apartment, inviting 1000 people to attend, you'll also bring out the hose and hose these hippies down until these punks are gone again. The same with the masses of impoverished and crime-infested Arabs and Africans that are now coming.

The sad thing is that many within today's Social Democratic parties all over the world have given up common sense thinking and are increasingly paying the price for it at the ballot boxes.

[Tender Branson]

https://twitter.com/nancywyuen/status/980044290276564992

Just dropping this off here for anyone thinking its totally unreasonable to fear that your immigration answers would be used against you and that your Census answers are totally confidential.

More ABSURD fear-mongering !

The privacy laws concerning the Census Bureau have been significantly strengthened since WW2:

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And in March 1947, the WW2 data sharing was repealed:

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https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/PrivConfidChrono.pdf

Also:

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[Tender Branson]

Instead of this constant fearmongering, Democrats should inform their base (among them many minorities and immigrants) and tell them they must participate to ensure an almost complete census.

The information above needs to be sent to them via email. The Democratic Party has a huge database of migrant voters who got naturalized.

If properly informed, they will also tell their (undocumented) friends - which will lead to higher participation and a better Census in general.

If Democrats continue with their obstruction and criticism, they will only cut into their own flesh and allow Trump a victory on this issue ...