The Imperial Dominion of the South's Legislature

[Dancing with Myself]

The Band's awesome, I like it

[Mr. Taft Republican]

Well looks like everyone has had input, lets put this to a vote (Ha! Beat Yelnoc to it )

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[Yelnoc]

WTG, Taft. 

Abstain.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I vote Aye!

[Dancing with Myself]

Aye

[Yelnoc]

2 ayes an 1 abstain is a pass...

There's no legislation in the pipeline.  I don't have any axes left to grind put if anyone else has an agenda, by all means put it forth.  I'll bring it up again; Sanchez, you had quite a comprehensive platform in the last election.  Do you want to try and put any of that into legislation?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Is that an official certification of the vote? Anyway...

     On the Commemoration of Levon Helm Act: by the powers vested in me as Emperor of this region, I thus sign it into law.

     Be it resolved, X Emperor PiT

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Sanchez, you had quite a comprehensive platform in the last election.  Do you want to try and put any of that into legislation?

Nope

Yeah, I have been reading up on the laws to see which is done and which is not though.

[Yelnoc]

     Is that an official certification of the vote? Anyway...

     On the Commemoration of Levon Helm Act: by the powers vested in me as Emperor of this region, I thus sign it into law.

     Be it resolved, X Emperor PiT

Is the Speaker or the Viceroy suppose to introduce and certify bills?  That would seem to logically fall within my jurisdiction but I have a nagging feeling it's not my job (which doesn't make much sense but their's politics for you).

EDIT:
Bah, whatever.  Here's the next bill, Introduced by Darth Sanchez.

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I agree with the sentiment but I think it will need some amendments to narrow its scope.

[Yelnoc]

Here are some amendments....

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[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Here are some amendments....

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I added to D the word "Minor". Child killers deserve the penalty of death as well.

[Dancing with Myself]

Here are some amendments....

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I added to D the word "Minor". Child killers deserve the penalty of death as well.

I agree with all of this. This bill has my 110% support

[Associate Justice PiT]

     It would have to wait until next Friday to be put on the ballot.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

     It would have to wait until next Friday to be put on the ballot.

Good-Hopefully it will pass.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Anyway, I am strongly opposed to the death penalty myself, & as Emperor I could easily kill it anyway by unilaterally imposing a moratorium on all executions in the region. With that said, if the voters of the region approve this amendment then I will accept their judgment & take no actions to interfere with the application of the death penalty as long as it squares with the law of the region.

     As for the bill on the floor, I recommend that you adopt the strategy of just repealing the End To Capital Punishment Amendment with this bill, so as to avoid the difficulty of shoehorning text about the application of the death penalty into the Constitution while simultaneously eliminating the only extant reference to the death penalty in there!

     Instead, Yelnoc's amendments should be proposed as amendments to the Re-initiation of the Death Penalty in the Southeast Initiative in the event of the current Constitutional amendment passing. The text of that law relates pretty closely to his amendments, & the extant law could definitely be improved upon.

[Yelnoc]

     Anyway, I am strongly opposed to the death penalty myself, & as Emperor I could easily kill it anyway by unilaterally imposing a moratorium on all executions in the region. With that said, if the voters of the region approve this amendment then I will accept their judgment & take no actions to interfere with the application of the death penalty as long as it squares with the law of the region.

Thank you for that.  A deadlock between the two branches of government is never fun.

     

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Like this?

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[Associate Justice PiT]

     Initiative 101 failed. I'm talking about Initiative 229: "End To Capital Punishment Amendment".

     As for the amendments to Initiative 165: "Re-initiation of the Death Penalty in the Southeast Initiative", some of the items are already covered & some are not. I'd probably need to write a bill dealing with it, though I'm sort of busy this weekend.

[Yelnoc]

     Initiative 101 failed. I'm talking about Initiative 229: "End To Capital Punishment Amendment".

     As for the amendments to Initiative 165: "Re-initiation of the Death Penalty in the Southeast Initiative", some of the items are already covered & some are not. I'd probably need to write a bill dealing with it, though I'm sort of busy this weekend.

That's fine, so am I.  Maybe one of the junior legislators want to tackle this one?  The only way to learn is through one's mistakes but one cannot make mistakes if one never tries.

[Mr. Taft Republican]

I'm somewhat dissapointed by the amendments/legislation up for review, the death penalty is a barbaric and mideval device, which should be put out to pasture. When individuals muder each other it is wrong, is it any more right when it a death is on the hands of the State?

[Yelnoc]

I'm somewhat dissapointed by the amendments/legislation up for review, the death penalty is a barbaric and mideval device, which should be put out to pasture. When individuals muder each other it is wrong, is it any more right when it a death is on the hands of the State?

This kind of question strikes at the heart of one's outlook on life.  You and PiT seem to believe that there can never be a justification for murder.  And that's great, that's your view and I won't try to change that.

I think there are certain instances in which killing is acceptable.  However, I would consider murder a sub-category of killings, something my amendments tried to lay out.  Early-term abortion, medically "pulling the plug" to prevent needless suffering, killing in self-defense, and killing in warfare are all, in my view "justified killings".  Capital punishment, in my view, also fits into that category rather than murder.

Notice who is eligible for capital punishment.  Those who have committed pre-mediated, first degree (or aggravated) murder.  People who have unjustly killed others and who, statistically and based on their past behavior, will kill again.  We could put them in prison for life but there is no reason they won't kill other inmates.  Besides, such treatment places an extra tax burden on the citizens of the IDS and stretches the prison system even thinner.

It is, I believe, the duty of the state to incapacitate said murderers to prevent them from striking again.  It is the responsibility of the state to kill the said murderers to prevent an unfair burden on the prison system and the taxpayers and, don't forget, it is the state's responsibility to see justice is served.  An eye for eye doesn't make the world blind, it only removes cataracts like, say John Wilkes Booth.

[Dancing with Myself]

I'm somewhat dissapointed by the amendments/legislation up for review, the death penalty is a barbaric and mideval device, which should be put out to pasture. When individuals muder each other it is wrong, is it any more right when it a death is on the hands of the State?

People who murder or take someone's virginity and pride should have their life taken.  If you  knew someone who was murdered or raped you would want the same thing

[Mr. Taft Republican]

I'd respond chronilogically, but tb's is shorter, sorry Yelnoc

People who murder or take someone's virginity and pride should have their life taken.  If you  knew someone who was murdered or raped you would want the same thing

I'd like to think I wouldn't. I'm no christian and personally don't believe in morality as some sort of set in stone thing, but revenge is needless, and serves no purpose. I oppose killing (unless in the case of consented(or desired if its in the will) euthanization) and firmly believe that just because someone is murdered doesn't give anyone the right to take anyone's life away. The maximum any government should be able to do is put them away and try to help them through rehabilitation, maybe it can work, maybe not, but trying to help them make something out of that tradgedy is far more productive than laying them to waste. There's actually some irony in that statement, just thought i'd let you know.

Notice who is eligible for capital punishment.  Those who have committed pre-mediated, first degree (or aggravated) murder.  People who have unjustly killed others and who, statistically and based on their past behavior, will kill again.  We could put them in prison for life but there is no reason they won't kill other inmates.  Besides, such treatment places an extra tax burden on the citizens of the IDS and stretches the prison system even thinner.

It is, I believe, the duty of the state to incapacitate said murderers to prevent them from striking again.  It is the responsibility of the state to kill the said murderers to prevent an unfair burden on the prison system and the taxpayers and, don't forget, it is the state's responsibility to see justice is served.  An eye for eye doesn't make the world blind, it only removes cataracts like, say John Wilkes Booth.

To the first portion, of them killing other inmates, considering that they may be locked up with people who have committed the same crim, would that not also accomplish your goal? Also, if we check the recidivism rates, those for homocide and rape are extremely low for released prisoners (less than 5%) than that of robbery or burglary (over 70%), this leads me to believe that it IS in fact possible to reform these men. One would like to think that economics could  be cast aside in the case of a man's life, but this, I fear, is not possible. Unfortunatly, I actually don't have the answer for that .

Oh well, it'll pass, but good debate eh?

[Yelnoc]

Notice who is eligible for capital punishment.  Those who have committed pre-mediated, first degree (or aggravated) murder.  People who have unjustly killed others and who, statistically and based on their past behavior, will kill again.  We could put them in prison for life but there is no reason they won't kill other inmates.  Besides, such treatment places an extra tax burden on the citizens of the IDS and stretches the prison system even thinner.

It is, I believe, the duty of the state to incapacitate said murderers to prevent them from striking again.  It is the responsibility of the state to kill the said murderers to prevent an unfair burden on the prison system and the taxpayers and, don't forget, it is the state's responsibility to see justice is served.  An eye for eye doesn't make the world blind, it only removes cataracts like, say John Wilkes Booth.

To the first portion, of them killing other inmates, considering that they may be locked up with people who have committed the same crim, would that not also accomplish your goal? Also, if we check the recidivism rates, those for homocide and rape are extremely low for released prisoners (less than 5%) than that of robbery or burglary (over 70%), this leads me to believe that it IS in fact possible to reform these men. One would like to think that economics could  be cast aside in the case of a man's life, but this, I fear, is not possible. Unfortunatly, I actually don't have the answer for that .

Oh well, it'll pass, but good debate eh?

One of the big bonuses of Capital Punishment is the method used (lethal injection) is as painless as possible.  One inmate killing another in a jail-yard brawl is certainly not painless.  Viewing prison homicides as a plus would make me rather sadistic, no?

You bring up reform.  Part of the reason for that statistic is that murderers and rapist serve much longer jail sentences.  When they are released, they are often old men.  Even if they want to kill or rape again, they often physically cannot.  Going beyond that, you have to ask, does this man (or woman) deserve a chance at rehabilitation?  Is it worth the resources of the state to try to rehabilitate, say, a serial killer?

[Dancing with Myself]

Rehabilitation does not help anything, Mr. Viceroy. The offender will get out and do it again 20 times over. And even if you are religious or not, people agree with what I said earlier

[Associate Justice PiT]

Rehabilitation does not help anything, Mr. Viceroy. The offender will get out and do it again 20 times over. And even if you are religious or not, people agree with what I said earlier

     I find the Speaker's explanation a bit more persuasive, if I may say so myself.

     Anyway, I suspect that many rapes & murders are crimes of passion rather than the act of serial offenders. I think we've all heard it said that most rape victims are attacked by people they know. For many murderers & rapists, I suspect that they are crimes of passion that are more indicative of self-control failure than a more general trend towards criminal behavior. Granted, I am fairly certain that that's less true for murder than for rape.