Which of these "covid view camps" do you fall into?

[Vice President Christian Man]

I've been in Camp 4 for a while but I was in Camp 5 early on in the pandemic before I realized how serious it was. Right now I'm generally in camp 4, but I think state/local governments should be able to impose mask mandates, while businesses can choose whether or not to require masks or prior testing for the unvaccinated.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Mostly #3, with some aspects of #2.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Camp 5, unreservedly.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I believe things should go back to normal for vaccinated people and there should be a total lockdown for unvaccinated people (same).

[RINO Tom]

#4, though I do support mask mandates only for the unvaccinated, and vaccine mandates in certain professions

Amen.  Anyone supporting the same policies for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people - whether from a “anti-vaxx” or “pro-lockdown” perspective - is ing mentally ill at this point.

[RINO Tom]

I believe things should go back to normal for vaccinated people and there should be a total lockdown for unvaccinated people (same).

Doesn’t bother me if a bunch of unvaccinated people want to run about … guess why?  I’M vaccinated!

[GeneralMacArthur]

Camp 3, and my opinion will be reinforced once we have a vaccine that specifically prevents Omicron.

The vaccines completely eliminated original COVID-19.

The Delta variant was almost entirely a pandemic of the unvaccinated, who died in droves while the vaccinated population was well-protected and mostly avoided the virus entirely or suffered extremely mild symptoms.

With Omicron, it seems the vaccines are no longer very effective at preventing you from contracting the virus, but the vaccinated (and especially the boosted) still experience far milder symptoms than the unvaccinated, who are still dying by the thousands every day.

At this point in time, being vaccinated will not help prevent the spread of the virus, all it will do is save your life.  But we're probably about 4-6 weeks away from that changing, at which point vaccines will once again become a critical weapon to prevent the spread.

In the meantime, masks continue to be the most effective way to prevent the spread.

So if you are against vaccines and mask mandates, then you are in favor of maximizing the spread of the virus and/or the government doing nothing to protect its people and keep them from suffering and dying.  To me that doesn't seem like a morally defensible position.  And the fact that so many COVID libertarians have chosen to hide behind "masky hurt facey" and phony anti-vaxx garbage is just pathetic.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

That might be your experience but it's clear not mine, here in Singapore our mask mandate applies everytime you are outside with the narrow exception for heavy exercise. You might be walking alone in a park with not a person in sight but the law here mandates you have to wear a mask. My social gatherings have been capped at mostly 5 people with it varying between totally restricted and at the maximum of 8 people and my education has been perpetually on zoom. Singapore has also implemented a strict mandatory qurantine system and I am right now serving a 7 day home qurantine.  I was only able to make a trip due to families fortunate economic position as while as a dire need to see my 90 year old grandfather.

Outdoor masks by themselves do not stop the spread of omicron, even a lockdown doesn't do that once you get a sufficient amount of community spread as can be seen in the Netherlands where cases have continued rising despite a lockdown. What benefit is a mask mandate when it's clearly insufficient to stop the spread, nothing sort of a full china style lockdown for many months would be where there's clearly no political appetite.

Also saying for a few years is handwaving away the fact that we are no closer to the end of the pandemic despite being promised it many times, we were told that we just needed to lockdown for a few weeks to flatten the curve, then until the vaccine was avaliable and the elderly vaccinated, then until 50,6099% of adults are vaccinated for herd immunity, then I was told that was insufficent and even kids had to be vaccinated. Finaly we have arrived with omicron where the new hurdle being held is the claim that if everyone get's bolstered that will end the pandemic. It's not a conspiracy theory to see that these benchmarks are never going to allow the pandemic to end.

My country has essentially put a universal booster mandate if you wish to enter any indoor space or enter a workplace, essential making getting a booster mandatory if you wish to do anything other than be a hermit. Despite this, our cases are still rising sharply similar to everywhere else except china.

Now I support vaccination and boosters because I have looked at the data and seen how effective they have been at reducing the severity of the disease and the death rate, Omicron with 2 doses of the vaccine is effectivley at the same level of the flu. We have been able to bring down the diseases death rate to that of the flu, why can't we as a society treat it as such instead of wanting permanent restrictions ?

I mean, those restrictions are clearly completely excessive and counterproductive clearly - but there is a difference between dropping every restriction all together and still maintaining a minimal level on the basis that while it is not dangerous on an individual level, Omicron is still transmissible enough to put a healthcare system under pretty severe pressure.

One thing that does feel noticeable at least in most of Europe is that the messaging has moved towards "once this wave is over, it will be time to drop the restrictions for good". Even if you write it off as an indeterminate future, it is still a clear change in messaging because it is the first time that the authorities have gone as far as suggesting a genuine back to normal is on the cards; and the first time an actual end point has been set.

(feels notable in that respect, that the two Western European countries to have had lockdowns over the Autumn, namely Austria and Holland, are arguably the two that are the most culturally right wing and definitely have the two most right wing governments west of the iron curtain)

In that respect, the restrictions that are in place at the moment here - principally masks in shops and public transport and a vaccine passport seem fine enough. As far as things go, the first is not a major inconvenience (as in, I'm not exactly having many social interactions on the train; and there is no mask requirement in bars or clubs or schools where it would be damaging) and the latter is not an issue at all for the 80%+ of people who are vaccinated.

I'm not completely opposed to travelling bans as you are, in fact the only countries that have been able to keep to a covid zero policy are those that have implemented mandatory quarantine for international travellers to keep covid out after having been able to eradicate it domestically through lockdowns. China, Hong Kong, NZ and Western Australia have managed using that strategy and I do think it's a valid one to choose so long as the people make democratic decisions that they prefer it over having covid-19 enter the country.

I do think the restrictions in the absence of that sort of policy are effectively indefinite and I don't want that to happen. I have been reading a lot about people advocating a new normal where schools are mostly online, mask-wearing is mandatory and presenting passes showing that we had a booster within 6 months should be made permanent.

I'm living in the utopian end-state many of those promoting restrictions want where the popular is 95% vaccinated with a booster within 6 months required to enter an indoor structure and mask-wearing mandatory every time you leave the house. Yet it still hasn't delivered on either eliminating covid or letting me go back to normal as my university is still mainly online and social gatherings are capped at 5 people while cases are still surging. yet these measure seem to be permenant with the goverment seeing it as simply part of a new normal.

 

[JGibson]

I am primarily in Camp 3, with a mix of Camp 4.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Camp 5.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I find it interesting that only 8% of this forum actually supports options 1-2, but Republicans constantly act like that's what the entire Democratic Party supports.

The Biden administration is in camp 3, and most Democrats are split between camps 3/4 while most Republicans are split between camps 4/5.  We're really not that far apart according to the poll.

The problem is that camp 5 should actually be split between two camps -- camp 5 and camp 6, where camp 6 is camp 5 but you also believe the vaccine is a brain chip, COVID can be cured by drinking piss and eating horse dewormer, Dr. Fauci is an international supercriminal who should be executed, and Biden is the ringleader of a vast conspiracy to use COVID to create the New World Order.  About 30% of the Republican Party is in this camp, and Joe Rogan constantly brings them on his show to promote this viewpoint while he nods along in agreement.  There's not really any equivalent to this on the Democratic side.  And this is what's causing so much societal chaos.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Anyway there's one other thing I want to add.

Option 1 is totally unreasonable now, but was very reasonable early in the pandemic, when we had absolutely no idea what was going on, people were dying by the thousands every day, hospitals and morgues were slammed and we were threatened with total societal collapse.  That is not the case today, which is why option 1 no longer makes sense TODAY.  But it made sense in March 2020.

Option 2 is totally unreasonable now, but was reasonable during the original COVID, which was very deadly but also within our power to control, especially once the vaccines came out.  Now that we've basically defeated original COVID, it's no longer reasonable.

Options 3 and 4 are both reasonable now, when Omicron is still spreading and killing like wildfire and we don't have a vaccine tailored to it.  Yes, for most people it's just the cold.  And yes, even though it's killing the unvaccinated, that is a choice they made.  But there are still lots of people who are unprotected and we should still be taking basic, easy steps to try and limit the uncontrolled spread of the disease and protect those who have an intense desire to avoid getting it.  This has been true for about three weeks now.  Even during Christmas, it was still Delta we had to worry about.

At a certain point in the near future, we'll either get an Omicron-specific booster, or the disease will just collapse from herd immunity (which we are already seeing).  At that point, and that point only, option 5 becomes the only rational option.  COVID is still going to pop up, but we've reduced it to its mildest form and created a regimen to control and defeat it.  Yes, at that point it will be like any other endemic disease.  But that's only because we (most of us) fought so hard for so long to achieve that end.  You're welcome.

[ElectionsGuy]

#4, though I do support mask mandates only for the unvaccinated, and vaccine mandates in certain professions

Amen.  Anyone supporting the same policies for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people - whether from a “anti-vaxx” or “pro-lockdown” perspective - is ing mentally ill at this point.

Yeah, treating people equally is so mentally ill.

[MT Treasurer]

#4, though I do support mask mandates only for the unvaccinated, and vaccine mandates in certain professions

Amen.  Anyone supporting the same policies for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people - whether from a “anti-vaxx” or “pro-lockdown” perspective - is ing mentally ill at this point.

Yeah, treating people equally is so mentally ill.

Well, he made it pretty clear what his mindset (which is line with most of the center-left/left forces pushing this type of world view/policy) is:

Doesn’t bother me if a bunch of unvaccinated people want to run about … guess why?  I’M vaccinated!

[morgieb]

I find it interesting that only 8% of this forum actually supports options 1-2, but Republicans constantly act like that's what the entire Democratic Party supports.

The Biden administration is in camp 3, and most Democrats are split between camps 3/4 while most Republicans are split between camps 4/5.  We're really not that far apart according to the poll.

The problem is that camp 5 should actually be split between two camps -- camp 5 and camp 6, where camp 6 is camp 5 but you also believe the vaccine is a brain chip, COVID can be cured by drinking piss and eating horse dewormer, Dr. Fauci is an international supercriminal who should be executed, and Biden is the ringleader of a vast conspiracy to use COVID to create the New World Order.  About 30% of the Republican Party is in this camp, and Joe Rogan constantly brings them on his show to promote this viewpoint while he nods along in agreement.  There's not really any equivalent to this on the Democratic side.  And this is what's causing so much societal chaos.

I mean this forum is far more anti-lockdown than other parts of the internet. The majority of Twitter and Reddit feel like they're still in 2020 mode, for example.

[jamestroll]

I find it interesting that only 8% of this forum actually supports options 1-2, but Republicans constantly act like that's what the entire Democratic Party supports.

The Biden administration is in camp 3, and most Democrats are split between camps 3/4 while most Republicans are split between camps 4/5.  We're really not that far apart according to the poll.

The problem is that camp 5 should actually be split between two camps -- camp 5 and camp 6, where camp 6 is camp 5 but you also believe the vaccine is a brain chip, COVID can be cured by drinking piss and eating horse dewormer, Dr. Fauci is an international supercriminal who should be executed, and Biden is the ringleader of a vast conspiracy to use COVID to create the New World Order.  About 30% of the Republican Party is in this camp, and Joe Rogan constantly brings them on his show to promote this viewpoint while he nods along in agreement.  There's not really any equivalent to this on the Democratic side.  And this is what's causing so much societal chaos.

I mean this forum is far more anti-lockdown than other parts of the internet. The majority of Twitter and Reddit feel like they're still in 2020 mode, for example.

My main respect for AAD in 2020 was that it was only left leaning site on the internet which seemed more skeptical of covid-measures. Now it seems like TalkElections.org is the most prominent left wing site that rejects lockdowns and covid measures.

I was not against lockdowns because I want people to die. I was against lockdowns due to the logistics, the precedent being set, and the sheer fact that we are not able to effectively control the virus via human agency.

[Calthrina950]

I find it interesting that only 8% of this forum actually supports options 1-2, but Republicans constantly act like that's what the entire Democratic Party supports.

The Biden administration is in camp 3, and most Democrats are split between camps 3/4 while most Republicans are split between camps 4/5.  We're really not that far apart according to the poll.

The problem is that camp 5 should actually be split between two camps -- camp 5 and camp 6, where camp 6 is camp 5 but you also believe the vaccine is a brain chip, COVID can be cured by drinking piss and eating horse dewormer, Dr. Fauci is an international supercriminal who should be executed, and Biden is the ringleader of a vast conspiracy to use COVID to create the New World Order.  About 30% of the Republican Party is in this camp, and Joe Rogan constantly brings them on his show to promote this viewpoint while he nods along in agreement.  There's not really any equivalent to this on the Democratic side.  And this is what's causing so much societal chaos.

I mean this forum is far more anti-lockdown than other parts of the internet. The majority of Twitter and Reddit feel like they're still in 2020 mode, for example.

That's right, although there is one reddit "community" or "forum", LockdownSkepticism, which is anti-restriction and anti-mandate. I can't remember who it was on here who first mentioned it (I think it was Bandit?), but I've been following that feed for well over a year now.

[Person Man]

I find it interesting that only 8% of this forum actually supports options 1-2, but Republicans constantly act like that's what the entire Democratic Party supports.

The Biden administration is in camp 3, and most Democrats are split between camps 3/4 while most Republicans are split between camps 4/5.  We're really not that far apart according to the poll.

The problem is that camp 5 should actually be split between two camps -- camp 5 and camp 6, where camp 6 is camp 5 but you also believe the vaccine is a brain chip, COVID can be cured by drinking piss and eating horse dewormer, Dr. Fauci is an international supercriminal who should be executed, and Biden is the ringleader of a vast conspiracy to use COVID to create the New World Order.  About 30% of the Republican Party is in this camp, and Joe Rogan constantly brings them on his show to promote this viewpoint while he nods along in agreement.  There's not really any equivalent to this on the Democratic side.  And this is what's causing so much societal chaos.

I mean this forum is far more anti-lockdown than other parts of the internet. The majority of Twitter and Reddit feel like they're still in 2020 mode, for example.

That's right, although there is one reddit "community" or "forum", LockdownSkepticism, which is anti-restriction and anti-mandate. I can't remember who it was on here who first mentioned it (I think it was Bandit?), but I've been following that feed for well over a year now.

I think Camp 6 is a bigger problem than Camp 5. Camp 5 are those who probably aren't anti-vax and think its good that vaccination is encouraged, but isn't taking any precautions themselves and don't want any COVID-related Public Health measures whatsoever. By the end of the year, if not sooner, I will see myself into that camp. At a certain point, we either have the capacity for COVID or we don't and no amount of quarantine will fix it. There is definitely a difference between those who think "its just the flu" and those who think it's something rich people are doing to them to ruin their lives.

[Aurelius]

I've shifted from Camp 4 to Camp 5 now that the peak of the Omicron wave has passed.

[Frodo]

Can we have this thread moved to the Forum Community board where we have our other COVID threads and polls? 

[Tintrlvr]

I wouldn't say I'm in any of these camps but a mix of them:

Camp 4: Vaccinated people should be allowed to get on with their lives with no restrictions
Camp 5: Testing should generally not be required for various activities (including for entry into the country), and quarantining on a positive test should not be mandatory
Camp 3: Vaccination should be required for most participation in public enclosed spaces, including schools (to the extent the students are old enough to be vaccinated), bars and restaurants, stadiums and theaters, etc. Ideally we would go full Austria and simply require vaccination for all adults

Not going to touch masks as I think they largely do not matter compared to vaccination, but I don't support mask mandates at this point outside of hospitals or other healthcare settings, such as elder care facilities.

[Beet]

Camp 1, but given that reality that there is no political support for that position, I've practically been in Camp 4 since 2020 and I don't see that changing.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I find it interesting that only 8% of this forum actually supports options 1-2, but Republicans constantly act like that's what the entire Democratic Party supports.

The Biden administration is in camp 3, and most Democrats are split between camps 3/4 while most Republicans are split between camps 4/5.  We're really not that far apart according to the poll.

The problem is that camp 5 should actually be split between two camps -- camp 5 and camp 6, where camp 6 is camp 5 but you also believe the vaccine is a brain chip, COVID can be cured by drinking piss and eating horse dewormer, Dr. Fauci is an international supercriminal who should be executed, and Biden is the ringleader of a vast conspiracy to use COVID to create the New World Order.  About 30% of the Republican Party is in this camp, and Joe Rogan constantly brings them on his show to promote this viewpoint while he nods along in agreement.  There's not really any equivalent to this on the Democratic side.  And this is what's causing so much societal chaos.

I mean this forum is far more anti-lockdown than other parts of the internet. The majority of Twitter and Reddit feel like they're still in 2020 mode, for example.

That's right, although there is one reddit "community" or "forum", LockdownSkepticism, which is anti-restriction and anti-mandate. I can't remember who it was on here who first mentioned it (I think it was Bandit?), but I've been following that feed for well over a year now.

I think Camp 6 is a bigger problem than Camp 5. Camp 5 are those who probably aren't anti-vax and think its good that vaccination is encouraged, but isn't taking any precautions themselves and don't want any COVID-related Public Health measures whatsoever. By the end of the year, if not sooner, I will see myself into that camp. At a certain point, we either have the capacity for COVID or we don't and no amount of quarantine will fix it. There is definitely a difference between those who think "its just the flu" and those who think it's something rich people are doing to them to ruin their lives.

Camp 5 is a good descriptor for me (relative to Camp 6).  I'm vaccinated and boosted and certainly don't believe some of the more outlandish conspiracy theories.  I think my vaccine is more effective at preventing serious illness than stopping the spread, so I question the point of vaccine mandates (even though I chose to be vaccinated).  At the same time, my concern with getting covid is zero, and I'm not going to be running out to get tested (or stay home) if I come down with the sniffles.

[Frodo]

It looks likely that by April, the death rate in the United States will return to the low levels of the summer of 2021, so I am officially moving (finally) from Camp 3 to Camp 4.  We are no longer in need of either mask or vaccine mandates, though I am resistant to returning completely to the pre-COVID normalcy of Camp 5 until we see what this year (and especially next winter) has to bring.  If we have a surge of infections due to a new variant after this one, but the death rate remains relatively low with the weekly average at 500 or less, I think we can safely declare the pandemic officially over, at least here in the United States.   So 'cautious but watchful optimism' will be my motto for the next twelve months.

[GregTheGreat657]

I was in Camp 4 for most of 2021, but after Omicron, I am now in Camp 5