Senate Protest and Analysis Thread

[Q]

Under Article 1, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Second Constitution of Atlasia I hereby call for impeachment proceedings to begin against President Ebowed for comitting several acts of murder, most notably Southeast Governor Harry. 

So that the Senate is aware, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is responsible for opening and presiding over this trial.

[Emsworth]

Sponsored by Senator Earl A. Washburn (SDP-NY), co-sponsored by Senator jerusalemcar5 (SDP-ME)

AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF ATLASIA

The President of the Republic of Atlasia has under no circumstances
the right to relieve the duties of any elected official. The President
may not also have the have the power to relieve the duties any member
of the Supreme Court of Atlasia or any member of a regional court.
The President may not in his executive powers dismiss any Senator,
the Vice President or any elected member of the regions.

My personal opinion is that this amendment is redundant and unnecessary. The President may have jokingly claimed a particular power; however, that does not mean that the power actually exists. I would note that there is already a Supreme Court decision (SamSpade v. Ebowed) in which the Court has declared that the President's powers are not unlimited--their extent is determined by legal history.

[MasterJedi]

I'd like to bump Jas's Middle East Resolution to the front of the legislative agenda if Q will agree.

[Ebowed]

It has come to my attention (thanks to the SoFA) that for countless senate sessions we have been unintentionally ignoring the fact that resolutions unrelated to senate procedural rules are subject to the same presidential signature/veto conditions as regular legislation.  Since there is a recently introduced resolution now in the queue, I thought I would just bring this to light so that we make sure to follow proper procedure from now on.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

That would apply only if a Resolution were to become Law.  I fail to see what "law" the Resolution on the Middle East Conflict seeks to implement.  It neither creates nor destroys any obligation or authority upon any person or entity.  Since  Of course, there is nothing that says a President can't attach his signature to it, but since it ain't a Law, it ain't needed.

[Ebowed]

Article I, Section 3, Clause 3 states in part:

"For any Bill or Resolution to pass the Senate, it shall have gained a majority in a valid vote. Before the Bill or Resolution becomes Law, it shall be presented to the President of the Republic of Atlasia, unless it be concerning the rules for the proceedings of the Senate..."

The only disqualifier this makes for resolutions is those regarding Senate procedure.  On the other hand, it states "Before the ... Resolution becomes Law," implying that the resolution would need to enact some sort of law for it to be subject to the presidential signature/veto.  So two interpretations are possible here.  I think disallowing only resolutions related to Senate procedure is more likely, given the strict disqualifier given in the aforementioned clause.

[Јas]

Does anyone know where the VP is?

[Јas]

I would like to note my disappointment at the moving of the GTO bill as emergency legislation, while Beirut burns and this government continues to do nothing about it.

[MasterJedi]

I would like to note my disappointment at the moving of the GTO bill as emergency legislation, while Beirut burns and this government continues to do nothing about it.

The reason I did it is frankly I feel Israel is doing what it needs to be doing to get rid of Hezbellah (probably spelled that wrong, don't feel like checking now), even if that means burning Beirut to the ground. Lebanon won't do anything Hezbellah and wants the international community to stop Israel for their rightful attack.

Aside from that after the GTO bill this will be bumped up into that spot.

[jerusalemcar5]

I would like to note my disappointment at the moving of the GTO bill as emergency legislation, while Beirut burns and this government continues to do nothing about it.

The reason I did it is frankly I feel Israel is doing what it needs to be doing to get rid of Hezbellah (probably spelled that wrong, don't feel like checking now), even if that means burning Beirut to the ground. Lebanon won't do anything Hezbellah and wants the international community to stop Israel for their rightful attack.

Aside from that after the GTO bill this will be bumped up into that spot.

So let's change some names here.

Terrorist Group A bombs the CN Tower.  A few Canadians die.  The Terrorist Group A headquarters are in Milwaukee.  Now Atlasia tried to get rid of Terrorist Group A, but it had overextended its resources (probably protecting petting zoos in Wyoming ) and since Terrorist Group A had never attacked Atlasia, it wan't a big deal.  So, Canada begins bombing Milwaukee.  Their airport and highways are destroyed.  Electricity is cut off and a bombing of the local power station.  Dozens of Atlasians die in the attacks on neighborhoods considered to be harboring Terrorist Group A and Milwaukee begins to crumble.

^Canada acted justly by bombing Milwaukee, right?  Regardless of the fact Atlasia is a sovereign nation?

[MasterJedi]

I would like to note my disappointment at the moving of the GTO bill as emergency legislation, while Beirut burns and this government continues to do nothing about it.

The reason I did it is frankly I feel Israel is doing what it needs to be doing to get rid of Hezbellah (probably spelled that wrong, don't feel like checking now), even if that means burning Beirut to the ground. Lebanon won't do anything Hezbellah and wants the international community to stop Israel for their rightful attack.

Aside from that after the GTO bill this will be bumped up into that spot.

So let's change some names here.

Terrorist Group A bombs the CN Tower.  A few Canadians die.  The Terrorist Group A headquarters are in Milwaukee.  Now Atlasia tried to get rid of Terrorist Group A, but it had overextended its resources (probably protecting petting zoos in Wyoming ) and since Terrorist Group A had never attacked Atlasia, it wan't a big deal.  So, Canada begins bombing Milwaukee.  Their airport and highways are destroyed.  Electricity is cut off and a bombing of the local power station.  Dozens of Atlasians die in the attacks on neighborhoods considered to be harboring Terrorist Group A and Milwaukee begins to crumble.

^Canada acted justly by bombing Milwaukee, right?  Regardless of the fact Atlasia is a sovereign nation?

Lebanon has never tried to get rid of Hezbellah, while some may not like it there they haven't done anything to get rid of it. And really bad analogy there kid.

[jerusalemcar5]

I would like to note my disappointment at the moving of the GTO bill as emergency legislation, while Beirut burns and this government continues to do nothing about it.

The reason I did it is frankly I feel Israel is doing what it needs to be doing to get rid of Hezbellah (probably spelled that wrong, don't feel like checking now), even if that means burning Beirut to the ground. Lebanon won't do anything Hezbellah and wants the international community to stop Israel for their rightful attack.

Aside from that after the GTO bill this will be bumped up into that spot.

So let's change some names here.

Terrorist Group A bombs the CN Tower.  A few Canadians die.  The Terrorist Group A headquarters are in Milwaukee.  Now Atlasia tried to get rid of Terrorist Group A, but it had overextended its resources (probably protecting petting zoos in Wyoming ) and since Terrorist Group A had never attacked Atlasia, it wan't a big deal.  So, Canada begins bombing Milwaukee.  Their airport and highways are destroyed.  Electricity is cut off and a bombing of the local power station.  Dozens of Atlasians die in the attacks on neighborhoods considered to be harboring Terrorist Group A and Milwaukee begins to crumble.

^Canada acted justly by bombing Milwaukee, right?  Regardless of the fact Atlasia is a sovereign nation?

Lebanon has never tried to get rid of Hezbellah, while some may not like it there they haven't done anything to get rid of it. And really bad analogy there kid.

That's because they don't have the resources and no one has bothered to provide it.  It is like taking a stick to fight a guy with two automatic rifles and a grenade.  I think the government would choose to stay in power and not be slaughtered to bits. 

And my analogy was EXCELLENT .

[MasterJedi]

I would like to note my disappointment at the moving of the GTO bill as emergency legislation, while Beirut burns and this government continues to do nothing about it.

The reason I did it is frankly I feel Israel is doing what it needs to be doing to get rid of Hezbellah (probably spelled that wrong, don't feel like checking now), even if that means burning Beirut to the ground. Lebanon won't do anything Hezbellah and wants the international community to stop Israel for their rightful attack.

Aside from that after the GTO bill this will be bumped up into that spot.

So let's change some names here.

Terrorist Group A bombs the CN Tower.  A few Canadians die.  The Terrorist Group A headquarters are in Milwaukee.  Now Atlasia tried to get rid of Terrorist Group A, but it had overextended its resources (probably protecting petting zoos in Wyoming ) and since Terrorist Group A had never attacked Atlasia, it wan't a big deal.  So, Canada begins bombing Milwaukee.  Their airport and highways are destroyed.  Electricity is cut off and a bombing of the local power station.  Dozens of Atlasians die in the attacks on neighborhoods considered to be harboring Terrorist Group A and Milwaukee begins to crumble.

^Canada acted justly by bombing Milwaukee, right?  Regardless of the fact Atlasia is a sovereign nation?

Lebanon has never tried to get rid of Hezbellah, while some may not like it there they haven't done anything to get rid of it. And really bad analogy there kid.

That's because they don't have the resources and no one has bothered to provide it.  It is like taking a stick to fight a guy with two automatic rifles and a grenade.  I think the government would choose to stay in power and not be slaughtered to bits. 

Still, they haven't done anything, even diplomatically. And that's beside the fact that Syria and Iran control Lebanon. It would be in Israel's best interests to reduce Lebanon to a smoldering wasteland and have complete control over the area.

[Јas]

I would like to note my disappointment at the moving of the GTO bill as emergency legislation, while Beirut burns and this government continues to do nothing about it.

The reason I did it is frankly I feel Israel is doing what it needs to be doing to get rid of Hezbellah (probably spelled that wrong, don't feel like checking now), even if that means burning Beirut to the ground. Lebanon won't do anything Hezbellah and wants the international community to stop Israel for their rightful attack.

Aside from that after the GTO bill this will be bumped up into that spot.

I do not wish to engage here on a debate on the rights and wrongs of the conflict in the Middle East, suffice to say that I respect that you and I and indeed the other Senators may have divergent views on the rights and wrongs of the conflict. You are entitled to espouse and defend your views on the matter as much as any other Senator.

What I would question is the use of your powers as PPT to influence such a debate, because it favours your political views for the matter to go undiscussed or at least be delayed. This to me seems to represent a politically biased use of the powers of the PPT (a job which I feel on the whole you have been more than adequate at) and is something which I do not favour. While I respect that there may be differing views as to what constitutes an emergency, I would have thought that a consensus would be more inclined to believe that the situation in Israel/Lebanon is more pressing than the GTO.

[MasterJedi]

I might as well say that once the GTO bill is off the floor and Jas's resolution is in the 5th slot I'll be introducing this amendment to re-write the bill.

Resolution on the Middle East Conflict

Recognizing that the security and stability of the Middle East is threatened by the current conflict between Hezbollah and Israel,

The Atlasian Senate hereby recognizes that:
1. The terrorist group, Hezbollah, is acting without legitimate cause or grievance and is slaughtering innocent Israeli citizens.
2. It is acting with the tacit support of the Syrian and Iranian governments.

Thus the Atlasian Senate hereby:
1. Condemns Hezbollah, Syria and Iran.
2. Condemns Hezbollah for launching rockets from civilian areas, thus making Israel attack civilian areas and causing undue death of Lebanese citizens to protect its own citizens.
3. Gives wholehearted support to the Israeli government in their attacks against Hezbollah and supports its complete destruction.
4. Is willing to sell Israel weapons and munitions in their continuing fight against terrorism.

[Democratic Hawk]

I might as well say that once the GTO bill is off the floor and Jas's resolution is in the 5th slot I'll be introducing this amendment to re-write the bill.

Resolution on the Middle East Conflict

Recognizing that the security and stability of the Middle East is threatened by the current conflict between Hezbollah and Israel,

The Atlasian Senate hereby recognizes that:
1. The terrorist group, Hezbollah, is acting without legitimate cause or grievance and is slaughtering innocent Israeli citizens.
2. It is acting with the tacit support of the Syrian and Iranian governments.

Thus the Atlasian Senate hereby:
1. Condemns Hezbollah, Syria and Iran.
2. Condemns Hezbollah for launching rockets from civilian areas, thus making Israel attack civilian areas and causing undue death of Lebanese citizens to protect its own citizens.
3. Gives wholehearted support to the Israeli government in their attacks against Hezbollah and supports its complete destruction.
4. Is willing to sell Israel weapons and munitions in their continuing fight against terrorism.

I concur with the Senator's proposed amendment to the Resolution on the Middle East Conflict

'Hawk'

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Nothing on the people in Lebanon who have nothing to do with Hizbollah being killed?

[Јas]

Nothing on the people in Lebanon who have nothing to do with Hizbollah being killed?

^^^^^^

[jerusalemcar5]

Nothing on the people in Lebanon who have nothing to do with Hizbollah being killed?

^^^^^^

Master Jedi doesn't care about Arab people.

[Virginian87]

I might as well say that once the GTO bill is off the floor and Jas's resolution is in the 5th slot I'll be introducing this amendment to re-write the bill.

Resolution on the Middle East Conflict

Recognizing that the security and stability of the Middle East is threatened by the current conflict between Hezbollah and Israel,

The Atlasian Senate hereby recognizes that:
1. The terrorist group, Hezbollah, is acting without legitimate cause or grievance and is slaughtering innocent Israeli citizens.
2. It is acting with the tacit support of the Syrian and Iranian governments.

Thus the Atlasian Senate hereby:
1. Condemns Hezbollah, Syria and Iran.
2. Condemns Hezbollah for launching rockets from civilian areas, thus making Israel attack civilian areas and causing undue death of Lebanese citizens to protect its own citizens.
3. Gives wholehearted support to the Israeli government in their attacks against Hezbollah and supports its complete destruction.
4. Is willing to sell Israel weapons and munitions in their continuing fight against terrorism.

I'm not comfortable with Article IV of your resolution.  If we are to sell the Israelis weapons, wouldn't we stand at risk of further terrorist attacks from Islamic extremists?  We are currently trying to quell resistance movements in Iraq as well as stop the Iranians from developing nuclear weapons.  If we make it known in the eyes of the Arabs that we are against them and for Israel, I think Atlasia would be putting herself in a tough situation.  I'm not saying we should support Hezbollah; quite the oppposite.  I just fear that overt support of Israel would lead to our being dragged into an increasingly prickly conflict when we have enough on our plate in the Middle East as it is.

[jerusalemcar5]

I might as well say that once the GTO bill is off the floor and Jas's resolution is in the 5th slot I'll be introducing this amendment to re-write the bill.

Resolution on the Middle East Conflict

Recognizing that the security and stability of the Middle East is threatened by the current conflict between Hezbollah and Israel,

The Atlasian Senate hereby recognizes that:
1. The terrorist group, Hezbollah, is acting without legitimate cause or grievance and is slaughtering innocent Israeli citizens.
2. It is acting with the tacit support of the Syrian and Iranian governments.

Thus the Atlasian Senate hereby:
1. Condemns Hezbollah, Syria and Iran.
2. Condemns Hezbollah for launching rockets from civilian areas, thus making Israel attack civilian areas and causing undue death of Lebanese citizens to protect its own citizens.
3. Gives wholehearted support to the Israeli government in their attacks against Hezbollah and supports its complete destruction.
4. Is willing to sell Israel weapons and munitions in their continuing fight against terrorism.

I'm not comfortable with Article IV of your resolution.  If we are to sell the Israelis weapons, wouldn't we stand at risk of further terrorist attacks from Islamic extremists?  We are currently trying to quell resistance movements in Iraq as well as stop the Iranians from developing nuclear weapons.  If we make it known in the eyes of the Arabs that we are against them and for Israel, I think Atlasia would be putting herself in a tough situation.  I'm not saying we should support Hezbollah; quite the oppposite.  I just fear that overt support of Israel would lead to our being dragged into an increasingly prickly conflict when we have enough on our plate in the Middle East as it is.

I agree.  This resolution is insane, biased, and one-sided.  It slaps the Arab world in the face and doesn't give a damn.  I will be voting a very strong NAY on this unless it actually admits Israel has been terrible in this series of events.  This reolution should and will receieve international condemnation and strengthen terrorists against us.

[MasterJedi]

I'm also thinking about adding a clause supporting the Lebanese government and willing to sell them weapons and munitions as well if they agree to help Israel attack Hezbollah.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't think that offering to sell anyone arms that the moment would be an especially good signal for us to send out... and the Lebanese government is in no position to attack Hizbollah.

[Democratic Hawk]

Actual Free Trade Bill

1. Section 3, F.L. 13-10 is hereby repealed.
2. Section 3, F.L. 13-11 is hereby repealed.
3. Section 3, F.L. 13-12 is hereby repealed.
4. Section 3, F.L. 13-19 is hereby repealed.
5. Section 3, F.L. 13-20 is hereby repealed.
6. Section 2 & 4, F.L. 13-23 is hereby repealed, and the sections are renumbered to reflect the above changes.
7. Section 3, F.L. 14-4 is hereby repealed.
8. Section 3, F.L. 14-5 is hereby repealed.

On this Senator, you and I shall not be in concurrence. When it comes to free trade, I have a vision , which is both grounded in my convictions and highly principled to boot!  More on this once it reaches the floor

'Hawk'

[Frodo]

Atlasian-Djibouti Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Djibouti.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.


Atlasian-Ethiopia Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Ethiopia.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.


Atlasian-Kenya Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Kenya.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.


Atlasian-Tanzania Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Tanzania.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.


Atlasian-Namibia Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Namibia.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.

Atlasian-Botswana Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Botswana.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.


Atlasian-Mali Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Mali.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.


Atlasian-Gabon Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Gabon.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.


Atlasian-Benin Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Benin.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.


Atlasian-Ghana Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Ghana.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.


Atlasian-Senegal Free Trade Bill

1. No tariffs, customs, or restrictions on movement of goods, except those that have been outlawed by the destination or interim nation, shall exist between the Republic of Atlasia and Senegal.
2. The President and other officers of the Atlasian Government shall take such actions as may be necessary to implement the provisions of this bill.

Wouldn't it be simpler simply to have one large bill entitled the 'Atlasia-Sub-Saharan African Free Trade Bill', and have a list of all the countries in this region with which we wish to have free trade?