OH-Luntz Global: Brown +19
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  OH-Luntz Global: Brown +19
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Author Topic: OH-Luntz Global: Brown +19  (Read 4061 times)
Cactus Jack
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« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2017, 01:37:04 PM »

Clearly not a good poll, but I'd laugh my head off if Mandel ends up getting Stricklanded.
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UncleSam
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« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2017, 01:58:48 PM »
« Edited: August 01, 2017, 02:02:21 PM by UncleSam »

People shouldn't just dismiss the results of either this OR the polls showing Mandel leading. They simply demonstrate how differing electoral assumptions combined with some questionable polling methodology practices can lead to vastly different polling outcomes.

The first and most obvious difference is that the Luntz polling group is definitely a few points to the left of the Ohio - PPD poll, with the Luntz poll ignoring race and the PPD poll ignoring age as significant demographic indicators (even amateur pollsters know to include these as co-variates...), and Luntz having somewhat D-friendly age brackets (5% total more 18 - 29 year olds compared to 65+ is probably a Democratic pipe dream, particularly in Ohio). That being said, the two polled groups themselves are no where near 20 points apart from one another on a federal level.

The real difference between the polls lies in methodology. Notice how for every single Luntz survey question, the option listed first in the poll receives a massive boost. Is it really possible / remotely likely that Cordray would lose by 25+, Kasich would have +30 approvals, and Sherrod Brown would win by 20 points simultaneously? Of course not. The problem is that when you introduce large lists of options, people's attention spans dwindle and they tend to stop reading and just pick the best option they can instantly see. The NYT ran a good article years ago detailing how being at the top of a 2-person ballot offers a 2-point margin lead on its' own, and the effect gets amplified for longer lists. Of course, we don't know how the other poll asked questions, so credit to the Luntz poll for releasing that information - maybe both surveys have opposite list biases! All that we definitively know is that Luntz has a bias towards the top line in every question, however.

The reality is that there was a significant shift against the item lines listed at the end across almost all questions, including Trump / Kasich's unfavorables, unfavorables for bipartisan redistricting commissions, Ohio legislature unfavorables, Cordray's numbers across the board against all candidates, and Mandel's numbers against Brown. From the looks of things and doing a significant amount of hand-waving, I would estimate that this bias probably amounts to roughly a 12 - 15 point swing across all questions, though of course it is very possible this survey simply polled more pro-Kasich moderate Republicans than other polls by a significant amount.

Don't dismiss polls even when the top lines seem ridiculous, because they contain valuable information regardless! Top lines rarely tell the most interesting stories - the assumptions they make that lead to that top line is the real question.
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Obama-Biden Democrat
Zyzz
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« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2017, 02:14:30 PM »

Mandel is just some Tea Party nut, he is not the face of Trumpian anti free trade faux populism. Sherrod Brown is an actual populist who fights for the working class of the buckeye state. Lean Brown.
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Skunk
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« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2017, 03:03:54 PM »

Junk, and just a little bit more junk than Mandel +8 or whatever.
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Co-Chair Bagel23
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« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2017, 02:02:41 AM »

Lol, best junk yet
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Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself
omegascarlet
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« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2017, 05:27:42 PM »

JUNK POLL, not because trump only -2 and Brown +19 is dumb, but because it shows Brown leading.

Likely R.
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Co-Chair Bagel23
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« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2017, 06:42:39 PM »

JUNK POLL, not because trump only -2 and Brown +19 is dumb, but because it shows Brown leading.

Likely R.

I think we have found either Krazen's or maga's owner.
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Not_Madigan
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« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2017, 06:44:19 PM »

JUNK POLL, not because trump only -2 and Brown +19 is dumb, but because it shows Brown leading.

Likely R.

Please god be Sarcasm

This is Tossup.
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Dr Oz Lost Party!
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« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2017, 11:50:51 PM »

JUNK POLL, not because trump only -2 and Brown +19 is dumb, but because it shows Brown leading.

Likely R.

Well this id funny.

Lean D
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Lachi
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« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2017, 05:07:47 AM »

Inevitable Senator Josh Mandel will soon be sworn in come January 3rd 2019 and I will be right as I usually am in these situations.
R hack is obvious.
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Co-Chair Bagel23
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« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2017, 02:10:29 PM »

Inevitable Senator Josh Mandel will soon be sworn in come January 3rd 2019 and I will be right as I usually am in these situations.
R hack is obvious.

Yeah, this thing is tilt D.
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