Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) in critical condition, 6 others killed in Arizona

[fezzyfestoon]

I've issued 44 infraction points so far in this thread.  Please keep it cool.

Overzealous much?

[Free Palestine]

So, it wasn't a teabagger or a cartel soldier.  Hurr

I'm glad to hear she'll be making a recovery, at least according to the doctor who operated on her.  It's unfortunate that six others died, including a federal judge and a nine-year/month-old.

[anvi]

Are you a doctor?
Not to sound callous but it sounds like she will be out of politics for a long time.

No.  I've been sitting here watching the news come in about this with my fiancee, who is a neuroscientist and teaches, among other things, neuroanatomy.  I was just responding to posts asking about or indicating things about the nature of the wounds.  It's impossible to say at this point what the congresswoman's condition will be, but it seems, from all indications so far, that her survival chances are decent, relatively speaking.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The sad thing is that conspiracy theories are probably working overtime now to "explain" that incident. To them it will be a CIA plot to discredit conspiracy theorists or something.

[Lunar]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

5.47 pm. A reader writes:

I'm a licensed psychologist with 20 years experience. I've watched the Jared Loughner Youtube videos. They show evidence of delusions of persecution. Loughner's less than coherent language also suggests a formal thought disorder. While Loughner can't be diagnosed without a full exam conducted in person, there are significant indications in the videos that he suffers from a psychotic disorder.

I would not rule out drugs as a factor, but he is within the age range that psychotic patients often suffer their first psychotic break. If I had to guess, I'd go with paranoid schizophrenia. If that's the case, his politics are irrelevant. He may not even be fit to stand trial unless and until his psychotic thinking is brought under control with medication.

[Torie]

He probably has schizophrenia,  a disease with which I am all too familiar. It is rather typical that the voices command you to do rather horrific things, and even someone rather pacific ordinarily during a break can commit violence. In the case with which I am familiar, the voices commanded that a random pedestrian on the street be punched. In this case, the voice commands were attended by the perps' very weird view of the world (much of which was probably written while he was sliding downhill into the abyss (as to which I am also familiar). That is my educated guess.

Whether he is criminally insane is another matter. That is a very high standard to meet. Handling better those suffering from serious mental illness is a very important priority. Doing better on that, would prevent a fair number of violent crimes, not to mention assorted and sundry other tragedies, like suicide (the voices tend to be fascinated by suicide for some reason).

[exopolitician]

AP reports outlook is "optymistic" and she is esponding to commands from doctors.

Incredible.

I was going to say, everyone at the beginning of this thread kept saying she was dead.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

AP reports outlook is "optymistic" and she is esponding to commands from doctors.

Incredible.

I was going to say, everyone at the beginning of this thread kept saying she was dead.

One word: survivor. I admit that after I read she was shot in the head from short distance and even if there was no report on death, I was sure that it's fatal. But no.

Just incredible. You go, Gabby! Hopefully, you'll be able to continue your service.

[Lief 🗽]

I'm a little confused how a paranoid schizophrenic was allowed to get a semi-automatic weapon in the first place.

[Frodo]

The child who died was 9 years old.

Giffords's wound was a through-and-through on "one side of the brain".  If the previous report that she was capable of speaking is true, it's quite likely that means the wound was in her right hemisphere.

Shot "one time in the head through and through" does not necessarily mean the bullet hit her brain.  The head contains more than the brain.  

The good news is that doctors are optimistic about the Congresswoman's recovery.  The bad news is that others still died.

Would they've brought neurologists in and had them operate if it was just a shot to the jaw?

EDIT: Hmm, check this out.  Right temporal and frontal lobes, if anywhere... not bad, all things considered.

I was afraid that even if she 'survived' a shot to her head, she would be practically brain-dead and remain indefinitely on life-support.

Is it safe to say she is out of the woods on that count at least?  

 

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I'm a little confused how a paranoid schizophrenic was allowed to get a semi-automatic weapon in the first place.

The sad irony is that a killed judge was an opponent of a Brady Bill.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Very sad... I hope everybody who's survived ends up surviving.  My thoughts and prayers are with all.

[Torie]

I'm a little confused how a paranoid schizophrenic was allowed to get a semi-automatic weapon in the first place.

Among other things, this might well have been his first break, which typically happens at about his age (he was 21), as the  approaching physical maturation of the brain for reasons we don't understand, make one with a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, have a break based on some triggering event, and we don't understand what that trigger is either. Some think it is a virus or something. It is generally considered now that it is not related to stress, or drugs for that matter (although once you have had a break, drugs then are indeed a factor in triggering the next). It is all quite a mystery. But we know there is a plus factor, because we have instances of identical twins, where one is a schizophrenic, and the other is not.

[redcommander]

Look the Tea Party may not have been directly responsible, but with someone like the shooter who most likely has mental problems, rhetoric from people like Palin, Angle, Paul, and others about the second amendment, and freedom of speech, and immigration must have had some effect on the individual to carry out the attack. The Tea Party does have indirect responsibility and shouldn't be acting as if they don't.

[Joe Biden 2020]

The child who died was 9 years old.

Giffords's wound was a through-and-through on "one side of the brain".  If the previous report that she was capable of speaking is true, it's quite likely that means the wound was in her right hemisphere.

Shot "one time in the head through and through" does not necessarily mean the bullet hit her brain.  The head contains more than the brain.  

The good news is that doctors are optimistic about the Congresswoman's recovery.  The bad news is that others still died.

Would they've brought neurologists in and had them operate if it was just a shot to the jaw?

EDIT: Hmm, check this out.  Right temporal and frontal lobes, if anywhere... not bad, all things considered.

I was afraid that even if she 'survived' a shot to her head, she would be practically brain-dead and remain indefinitely on life-support.

Is it safe to say she is out of the woods on that count at least?  

 

They say the next 24 hours is critical to her long-term recovery prognosis.  I guess only time will answer your question.

[Torie]

The child who died was 9 years old.

Giffords's wound was a through-and-through on "one side of the brain".  If the previous report that she was capable of speaking is true, it's quite likely that means the wound was in her right hemisphere.

Shot "one time in the head through and through" does not necessarily mean the bullet hit her brain.  The head contains more than the brain.  

The good news is that doctors are optimistic about the Congresswoman's recovery.  The bad news is that others still died.

Would they've brought neurologists in and had them operate if it was just a shot to the jaw?

EDIT: Hmm, check this out.  Right temporal and frontal lobes, if anywhere... not bad, all things considered.

I was afraid that even if she 'survived' a shot to her head, she would be practically brain-dead and remain indefinitely on life-support.

Is it safe to say she is out of the woods on that count at least?  

The Doc said she was responding to commands, so she is apparently in better shape than that - thank God.

[anvi]

Frodo, odds are that she is not even close to being brain dead.  She was reported before the surgery to be responding to commands like holding up two fingers and controlling other very basic motor functions.  That seems to indicate that she can hear, understand, control at least some motions on her own, and still has at least some executive function.  Since the wound seems to have been confined to the upper part of the cortex, I don't think sustained life support will be required either.  It's just still unclear what sorts of cognitive or decision-making capacities she will retain, since the parts of the cortex the bullet seems to have traversed would effect things like that.  But, again relatively speaking, for a woman who was shot through the brain, she seems at least so far to have been incredibly fortunate.

Our hearts go out to the people who lost their lives in the shooting, including a precious and irreplaceable 9-year old girl, and others who were wounded, and condolences to all their families.  Truly awful.  

[MaxQue]

I'm a little confused how a paranoid schizophrenic was allowed to get a semi-automatic weapon in the first place.

NRA and 2nd amendment!

[Marokai Backbeat]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36033690#36033690

[Lunar]

Respect where it is due:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09giffords.html?pagewanted=2&hp
[quote]
Senator John M. McCain of Arizona, a Republican who serves in Washington with Ms. Giffords issued one of the strongest statements, saying: “I am horrified by the violent attack on Representative Gabrielle Giffords and many other innocent people by a wicked person who has no sense of justice or compassion. I pray for Gabby and the other victims, and for the repose of the souls of the dead and comfort for their families.” He added: “Whoever did this; whatever their reason, they are a disgrace to Arizona, this country and the human race, and they deserve and will receive the contempt of all decent people and the strongest punishment of the law.”

[MaxQue]

I'm a little confused how a paranoid schizophrenic was allowed to get a semi-automatic weapon in the first place.

NRA and 2nd amendment!

Incorrect, actually.

Well, in most countries, it is very difficult to have a semi-automatic weapon. In Quebec, it must be kept locked, in an hunting club, you must follow a use course and an psychological evaluation, if I remember well.

[Sam Spade]

Loughner applied for the military, but was rejected.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_91db5db4-1b74-11e0-ba23-001cc4c002e0.html

[Franzl]

Well, in most countries, it is very difficult to have a semi-automatic weapon. In Quebec, it must be kept locked, in an hunting club, you must follow a use course and an psychological evaluation, if I remember well.

The 2nd amendment isn't absolute, there are legal restrictions for certain groups of people, e.g. people with a history of violent crime, mental illness.

And I really don't want to turn this into a gun debate...but it's not as if a shooter necessarily has to have obtained his weapons legally...

[Marokai Backbeat]

Well, in most countries, it is very difficult to have a semi-automatic weapon. In Quebec, it must be kept locked, in an hunting club, you must follow a use course and an psychological evaluation, if I remember well.

The 2nd amendment isn't absolute, there are legal restrictions for certain groups of people, e.g. people with a history of violent crime, mental illness.

The problem is, there's a significant portion of the country that doesn't particularly care for those as legitimate exceptions, or say they do, but are only paying it lip service.

And not to be a total dick. But it's completely legitimate to talk about gun rights and the political environment from all the rhetoric in the last year or two in regard to this incident. I think it's irresponsible to throw around accusations, but would this have happened if the rhetoric on the right was not so incendiary? It's a legitimate question in my mind that shouldn't be shot down by your shaming.

[Lunar]

I agree, gun rights and politics are not completely unassociated with assassination attempts on political figures, although it certainly muddles the discussion on a board like this one!

Well, in most countries, it is very difficult to have a semi-automatic weapon. In Quebec, it must be kept locked, in an hunting club, you must follow a use course and an psychological evaluation, if I remember well.

The 2nd amendment isn't absolute, there are legal restrictions for certain groups of people, e.g. people with a history of violent crime, mental illness.

The problem is, there's a significant portion of the country that doesn't particularly care for those as legitimate exceptions, or say they do, but are only paying it lip service.

And not to be a total dick. But it's completely legitimate to talk about gun rights and the political environment from all the rhetoric in the last year or two in regard to this incident. I think it's irresponsible to throw around accusations, but would this have happened if the rhetoric on the right was not so incendiary? It's a legitimate question in my mind that shouldn't be shot down by your shaming.