Germany megathread

[NewYorkExpress]

Another day, another far-right plot to overthrow the government.

Five Germans have been charged with treason over an alleged far-right plot to overthrow the government that included plans to abduct the health minister, prosecutors have announced.

The four men and a woman were arrested in recent months over the plot, with the health minister, Karl Lauterbach – unpopular among far-right groups because of anti-Covid measures – confirming he was targeted.

They were charged on 16 January and face counts ranging from founding a domestic terrorist group to preparing a treasonous act and violating weapons laws, the federal prosecutor’s office said on Monday.

The group aimed to “trigger civil war-like conditions in Germany by means of violence … to cause the overthrow of the government and parliamentary democracy”, the prosecutors said in a statement.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Another day, another far-right plot to overthrow the government.

Five Germans have been charged with treason over an alleged far-right plot to overthrow the government that included plans to abduct the health minister, prosecutors have announced.

The four men and a woman were arrested in recent months over the plot, with the health minister, Karl Lauterbach – unpopular among far-right groups because of anti-Covid measures – confirming he was targeted.

They were charged on 16 January and face counts ranging from founding a domestic terrorist group to preparing a treasonous act and violating weapons laws, the federal prosecutor’s office said on Monday.

The group aimed to “trigger civil war-like conditions in Germany by means of violence … to cause the overthrow of the government and parliamentary democracy”, the prosecutors said in a statement.

What is it with Germany and the far right.

[President Johnson]

And the next one:

https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1618661801394061326

[Storr]

Russian propaganda has gone bonkers when it comes to Germany since the latter made the decision to give Ukraine tanks:

https://twitter.com/j2ooj/status/1619777987360194563?s=20&t=fGGzQhE7w6PLgQjK...

[Isaak]

Sahra Wagenknecht (Left) and Alice Schwarzer (Germany's most famous feminist activist) have published a joint Manifesto for Peace, in which they call on Scholz to immediately "stop the escalation on arms deliveries to Ukraine" and bring both Zelenskyy and Putin to the negotiation table ("Ukraine cannot win a war against the world's largest nuclear power").

While it shouldn't surprise anybody that Wagenknecht has Russophile tendencies, the list of co-signatories is pretty diverse and impressive. It includes Germany's former EU commissioner Günter Verheugen (SPD) as well as Peter Gauweiler (former deputy leader of the CSU), Peter Brandt (historian and son of former Chancellor Willy Brandt), Erich Vad (former military advisor to Angela Merkel), Christoph Butterwegge (the Left's candidate for Federal President), Romani Rose (chairman of the Central Council of German Sinti and Roma), Antje Vollmer (former vice president of the Bundestag, Greens), Margot Käßmann (former chairwoman of the Council of the Evangelical Churches in Germany), and a number of prominent academics and artists.

Given that many in the SPD are also unhappy with delivering tanks, Scholz needs to be careful not to misjudge public opinion on this matter.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Hans Modrow, the last Chairman of the Council Of Ministers as well as the last communist premier of the German Democratic Republic (November 13, 1989 - April 12, 1990), has died at the age of 95.
From 1990 to 1994, he was a member of the Bundestag for the socialist PDS. in 1999 he was elected to the European Parliament for one term. In 2007, he became the chairman of the Council of Elders of Die Linke.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Sahra Wagenknecht (Left) and Alice Schwarzer (Germany's most famous feminist activist) have published a joint Manifesto for Peace, in which they call on Scholz to immediately "stop the escalation on arms deliveries to Ukraine" and bring both Zelenskyy and Putin to the negotiation table ("Ukraine cannot win a war against the world's largest nuclear power").

It should be mentioned that Schwarzer has fallen in disfavor with woke activists and 4th-wave "feminists", as they deem her to be a "TERF™". She has also sided with Russia a couple of times over the last twelve months.

While it shouldn't surprise anybody that Wagenknecht has Russophile tendencies, the list of co-signatories is pretty diverse and impressive. It includes Germany's former EU commissioner Günter Verheugen (SPD) as well as Peter Gauweiler (former deputy leader of the CSU), Peter Brandt (historian and son of former Chancellor Willy Brandt), Erich Vad (former military advisor to Angela Merkel), Christoph Butterwegge (the Left's candidate for Federal President), Romani Rose (chairman of the Central Council of German Sinti and Roma), Antje Vollmer (former vice president of the Bundestag, Greens), Margot Käßmann (former chairwoman of the Council of the Evangelical Churches in Germany), and a number of prominent academics and artists.

Including Reinhard Mey.

Günter Verheugen is a Seeheimer and a close friend of Gerhard Schröder, which might explain his stance on Russia.
Brandt Jr. has been a Putin apologist for a long time. I remember him having a row with Gerhart Baum over the Russian annexation of Crimea.

Given that many in the SPD are also unhappy with delivering tanks, Scholz needs to be careful not to misjudge public opinion on this matter.

According to Boris Johnson, Putin threatened Scholz with missile fire. Perhaps that's why he's been hesitating so much.

[CumbrianLefty]

According to Boris Johnson

Hmm, do you really need the possible problem explaining here?

[Middle-aged Europe]

Sahra Wagenknecht (Left) and Alice Schwarzer (Germany's most famous feminist activist) have published a joint Manifesto for Peace, in which they call on Scholz to immediately "stop the escalation on arms deliveries to Ukraine" and bring both Zelenskyy and Putin to the negotiation table ("Ukraine cannot win a war against the world's largest nuclear power").

While it shouldn't surprise anybody that Wagenknecht has Russophile tendencies, the list of co-signatories is pretty diverse and impressive. It includes Germany's former EU commissioner Günter Verheugen (SPD) as well as Peter Gauweiler (former deputy leader of the CSU), Peter Brandt (historian and son of former Chancellor Willy Brandt), Erich Vad (former military advisor to Angela Merkel), Christoph Butterwegge (the Left's candidate for Federal President), Romani Rose (chairman of the Central Council of German Sinti and Roma), Antje Vollmer (former vice president of the Bundestag, Greens), Margot Käßmann (former chairwoman of the Council of the Evangelical Churches in Germany), and a number of prominent academics and artists.

Given that many in the SPD are also unhappy with delivering tanks, Scholz needs to be careful not to misjudge public opinion on this matter.

The manifesto was co-initiated Sahra Wagenknecht of all people and AfD leadership has already publicly  endorsed the project too. They're walking a tightrope as it is not the discredit themselves  in a Querfront/Querdenker 2.0 kind of way.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Huge surprise (not), but the first co-signee of the "Manifesto for Peace", political scientist Johannes Varwick, has recanted his signature, citing a lack of distancing against far-right groups. This is basically what was inevitable from the start.

[Estrella]

Berliner Zeitung | Seymour Hersh: Joe Biden blew up Nord Stream because he didn't trust Germany

He probably did not do it – but if he did and this was the reason, he was right. Nord Stream 1 was a demonstration of Germany's self-centered and domineering approach towards its European allies. After the first invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea they haven't learned anything: not only did they build Nord Stream 2 and deride any opponents as American puppets, they presented increasing German dependency on Russia as a moral imperative. What was there to stop a future German government – motivated by economic nationalism, ideological deference to Russia or both – from selling out its allies again?

As long as Nord Stream was in working order, it was a clear and present danger to security of all of Europe.

[President Johnson]

Seems like these incidents happen more frequently lately and with more brutality. I hope all the responsible get caught and punished with severe sentences.

https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1626585110635220992

[Middle-aged Europe]

Berliner Zeitung | Seymour Hersh: Joe Biden blew up Nord Stream because he didn't trust Germany

He probably did not do it – but if he did and this was the reason, he was right. Nord Stream 1 was a demonstration of Germany's self-centered and domineering approach towards its European allies. After the first invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea they haven't learned anything: not only did they build Nord Stream 2 and deride any opponents as American puppets, they presented increasing German dependency on Russia as a moral imperative. What was there to stop a future German government – motivated by economic nationalism, ideological deference to Russia or both – from selling out its allies again?

As long as Nord Stream was in working order, it was a clear and present danger to security of all of Europe.

Berliner Zeitung garnered itself a bit of a reputation of being relatively "anti-Western" on the whole Ukraine issue during the last year, somewhat unusual for a nominally mainstream medium that isn't neither traditionally far-left or far-right.

Since 2019 it has been under new ownership though and shortly after the purchase one of the two co-owners, Holger Friedrich, was revealed to be a former Stasi informer in East Germany. Coincidentally, he also happens to be one of the original signees of the aforementioned "Manifesto for Peace".

In December 2022, Christan Stöcker wrote in his Spiegel column that the Berliner Zeitung had become "kind of a pro-Russian conspiracist mag" under its new publisher.

[CumbrianLefty]

Why do these people think "giving Putin everything he wants" equals "Peace"?

[Isaak]

Huge surprise (not), but the first co-signee of the "Manifesto for Peace", political scientist Johannes Varwick, has recanted his signature, citing a lack of distancing against far-right groups. This is basically what was inevitable from the start.

On the other hand, Germany's most important public intellectual Jürgen Habermas has written a Süddeutsche op-ed titled "A Plea for Negotiation" and the Wagenknecht/Schwarzer has now more than 500,000 signatures.

It may be an uncomfortable truth but public opinion in Germany is increasingly shifting against more weapon deliveries. Today, even Anton Hofreiter (Greens) was agitated about Ukraine's latest demands for cluster munitions ("They demand everything – I reject this").

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Why do these people think "giving Putin everything he wants" equals "Peace"?

Nathan had a good post on that a while ago about how Russia is still the USSR in the eyes of many European far-leftists.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Huge surprise (not), but the first co-signee of the "Manifesto for Peace", political scientist Johannes Varwick, has recanted his signature, citing a lack of distancing against far-right groups. This is basically what was inevitable from the start.

On the other hand, Germany's most important public intellectual Jürgen Habermas has written a Süddeutsche op-ed titled "A Plea for Negotiation" and the Wagenknecht/Schwarzer has now more than 500,000 signatures.

It may be an uncomfortable truth but public opinion in Germany is increasingly shifting against more weapon deliveries. Today, even Anton Hofreiter (Greens) was agitated about Ukraine's latest demands for cluster munitions ("They demand everything – I reject this").

I don't know how this is supposed to be a "truth", uncomfortable or otherwise.

In the ZDF-Politbarometer from January 27, 54% said that they support sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, while 38% opposed it. In the ARD-Deutschlandtrend from February 2, 52% supported it, while 39% opposed it.

In similar polls from about a month earlier, the majority had indeed opposed it. So, between late December/early January and late January/early February there was a shift in public opinion. A shift towards supporting sending main battle tanks to Ukraine.

It was largely an example of the "follow the leader" phenomenon though, like it had been several times before in 2022. The undecideds fell in favour of more military aid once Olaf Scholz and the government ended the debate and made an actual decision to send the tanks. We had seen this with other heavy weapons systems last year, and the pattern would probably reoccur when it came to fighter aircraft.

Cluster munition is a different issue entirely. It's completely unsurprising to me that Anton Hofreiter or anyone else (up to and including Joe Biden, I suppose) opposes giving Ukraine cluster munition, given that these weapons have been sanctioned by international treaties. This is not a case of Hofreiter finally being fed up with giving Ukraine weapons, it's a case of Hofreiter being opposed to cluster munition... like in general.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Anyway, the Left Party apparently has become a complete mess on Ukraine.

On Monday, party leadership distanced itself from Sahra Wagenknecht's planned peace rally on February 25, citing an insufficient cordon against Nazis and other far-right extremists. (Yesterday, Margot Käßmann, one of the original signees of Wagenknecht's "Manifesto for Peace" also said that she won't attend the rally.)

For some in the party this seems to be not enough. Today, former Bundestag MP and current Rostock city government department head Steffen Bockhahn left the Left Party (no pun intended), bemoaning an insufficient opposition of his party against the, quote, "fascist dictator Vladimir Putin".

[Middle-aged Europe]

The Berlin state chapter of the Left Party - which is arguably one of the more "Realo" ones in the party - now plans an invasion anniversary rally separate from the Wagenknechtian one, in front of the Russian Embassy protesting the "Russian war of aggression".

The Left's borough chapter in Berlin-Schöneberg apparently came out in favour of the Wagenknecht rally though.

The Left Party has essentially become two parties on foreign policy issues. Depending on how this goes, Wagenknecht has potentially pushed the Left Party's self-destruct button with her Manifesto for Peace.

[palandio]

It would be very telling if this were the final cause for the breakup.

Until not too long ago (when domestic and foreign policy were less obiously intertwined) I thought that the whole anti-imperialist thing (and also the anti-German thing) are irritating political cults used for political posturing and distancing. But seemingly it's more important than all the other stuff.

[Middle-aged Europe]

It would be very telling if this were the final cause for the breakup.

Until not too long ago (when domestic and foreign policy were less obiously intertwined) I thought that the whole anti-imperialist thing (and also the anti-German thing) are irritating political cults used for political posturing and distancing. But seemingly it's more important than all the other stuff.

I guess ultimately this is about whether you are more anti-imperialist about America or more anti-imperialist about Russia then.

[palandio]

It would be very telling if this were the final cause for the breakup.

Until not too long ago (when domestic and foreign policy were less obiously intertwined) I thought that the whole anti-imperialist thing (and also the anti-German thing) are irritating political cults used for political posturing and distancing. But seemingly it's more important than all the other stuff.

I guess ultimately this is about whether you are more anti-imperialist about America or more anti-imperialist about Russia then.

I mean the question is what anti-imperialism is supposed to mean:
- Being against imperialism
- Being against empires (because empires behave imperialistically)
- Being against the current #1 superpower out of abstract political-philosophical reasons
- Using all the abstract theory to mask plain anti-American resentment.

Going further imperialism as a (negative) term has a history in Soviet, communist, derived far-left and anti-Western discourse. We should not assume that when you say imperialism and when Sahra Wagenknecht says imperialism you mean the same thing.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Sahra Wagenknecht (Left) and Alice Schwarzer (Germany's most famous feminist activist) have published a joint Manifesto for Peace, in which they call on Scholz to immediately "stop the escalation on arms deliveries to Ukraine" and bring both Zelenskyy and Putin to the negotiation table ("Ukraine cannot win a war against the world's largest nuclear power").

While it shouldn't surprise anybody that Wagenknecht has Russophile tendencies, the list of co-signatories is pretty diverse and impressive. It includes Germany's former EU commissioner Günter Verheugen (SPD) as well as Peter Gauweiler (former deputy leader of the CSU), Peter Brandt (historian and son of former Chancellor Willy Brandt), Erich Vad (former military advisor to Angela Merkel), Christoph Butterwegge (the Left's candidate for Federal President), Romani Rose (chairman of the Central Council of German Sinti and Roma), Antje Vollmer (former vice president of the Bundestag, Greens), Margot Käßmann (former chairwoman of the Council of the Evangelical Churches in Germany), and a number of prominent academics and artists.

For the sake of fairness, it should be mentioned that Käßmann refused to attend the Schwarzer/Wagenknecht Querdenker-Querfront mass rally because of the numerous far-right activists who announced to participate.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The Wagenknechtian "peace" movement is annoying me.

They want to negotiate with Russia because they believe the Ukraine conflict might lead to nuclear war, meaning they consider Putin irrational enough to use nuclear weapons against Germany, but at the same time rational enough to negotiate with in any meaningful manner (Munich Agreement, anyone?). Their moralistic veneer is seemingly all about peace and being anti-war, but ultimately it often comes across as a thin disguise for articulating (supposed) national self-interests (their own gas price, maybe?). That all doesn't add up and it's hypocritical.

As it was the case for the past 30 years of her political career, Sahra Wagenknecht is taking the position that is coincidentally the default opposite to the political mainstream (including, at least in parts, the mainstream within her own political party) at any given moment. First it was the PDS's largely reformist historical assessment of the East German regime, then the refugees, then COVID vaccinations, then Ukraine. That's either a calculated political strategy or the hallmark of a inherently contrarian personality. This week she was in a TV talkshow again, being one of the most ubiquitous political talkshow guests for many years now (a kind of narcissism she shares with D. Trump, maybe?). There she was confronted by the issue of mass rapes of Ukrainian civilian women by Russian soldiers. She gave a callous response that has by now become almost typical for her (a form of emotional detachment that at times was even criticized by fellow long-time party members like Gregor Gysi), essentially saying that such things are always a part of war. Technically true, but maybe more is required here than just giving the robotic Dukakis answer on the death penalty.

[Isaak]

The Wagenknechtian "peace" movement is annoying me.

They want to negotiate with Russia because they believe the Ukraine conflict might lead to nuclear war, meaning they consider Putin irrational enough to use nuclear weapons against Germany, but at the same time rational enough to negotiate with in any meaningful manner (Munich Agreement, anyone?).

I don't see the contradiction? One can simultaneously believe that Putin would be willing to (a) further escalate the war if necessary and (b) negotiate if he feels that he has something to gain from negotiations. This may be a naive or unrealistic take (even though nobody knows what Putin really thinks), but it's hardly contradictory.

Their moralistic veneer is seemingly all about peace and being anti-war, but ultimately it often comes across as a thin disguise for articulating (supposed) national self-interests (their own gas price, maybe?). That all doesn't add up and it's hypocritical.

I don't disagree, but this is ultimately a matter of perception. On the other hand, there are also plenty of people who use their support for Ukraine as a pretense to advance their own interests, be they political or economic. Not even to speak of the US, which has the most to gain from a permanent severing of European-Russian ties.

As it was the case for the past 30 years of her political career, Sahra Wagenknecht is taking the position that is coincidentally the default opposite to the political mainstream (including, at least in parts, the mainstream within her own political party) at any given moment. First it was the PDS's largely reformist historical assessment of the East German regime, then the refugees, then COVID vaccinations, then Ukraine. That's either a calculated political strategy or the hallmark of an inherently contrarian personality.

I dislike Wagenknecht for a lot of reasons – first and foremost because she is a crazy Marxist. And it is obvious that she is both narcissistic and knows how to play the media. But at least the latter is not a bad thing per se? From a democratic perspective, I would even consider it desirable to have some non-AfD representation for these "contrarian" (but pretty popular) positions in both politics and the media. Especially in times when many people feel that there is too little diversity of opinion between and within the mainstream parties.

This week she was in a TV talkshow again, being one of the most ubiquitous political talkshow guests for many years now

Not more ubiquitous than Richard David Precht, Karl Lauterbach, Robin Alexander, Robert Habeck, Luisa Neubauer... and in contrast to them, Wagenknecht was the de facto leader of the opposition from 2013 to 2017.

There she was confronted by the issue of mass rapes of Ukrainian civilian women by Russian soldiers. She gave a callous response that has by now become almost typical for her (a form of emotional detachment that at times was even criticized by fellow long-time party members like Gregor Gysi), essentially saying that such things are always a part of war. Technically true, but maybe more is required here than just giving the robotic Dukakis answer on the death penalty.

I haven't seen that – but what would you have expected her to say? That rape is horrible? That war is cruel? We all know that. And if she would have said that, would your reaction not have been: "So, you condemn rape but still want to negotiate with Putin?! You hypocrite!"?

More generally, I really don't think that "confrontations" of this sort are helpful in any sense. One can find Russia's war crimes abhorrent and at the same time think that an unjust peace is better than a just war, let alone a nuclear escalation.