Opinion of unions

[politicus]

Coming from a country where the union movement is seen as an indispensable part of the social structure even by the vast majority of Conservatives, I am often surprised how even Democrats and left leaning independents on this forum are quite anti-union and consider especially public sector unions to be a problem. So:

What do you think of unions? Are they freedom organizations or horrible organizations?
If you dislike unions what are your reasons?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

For me, it all depends, it's not a clear cut principle. Sometimes they'll act for good, sometimes for ill.

[Hash]

For me, it all depends, it's not a clear cut principle. Sometimes they'll act for good, sometimes for ill.

^^

Though, when push comes to shove, I might side with the anti-union side (though largely because of a bad experience with a local union or a view tainted by French unions, which are horrible), it's not a clear-cut black and white issue where they're the best thing ever or the worst thing ever. As with everything, the worst people are those who are hardcore True Leftist union backers and the RAAAH UNIONS SUCKSZ!!11 reactionary/neoliberal crowd (like that moron Scott Walker). Unions undeniably did/continue to do good, they also can do bad things.

[Zioneer]

Unions can be both good and bad (as others in this thread have said), but I believe them to be as a concept, an FO. In the US, at least, they're the reason why there's a minimum wage, 40 hour work weeks, work holidays, and so forth, after all.

[Kitteh]

the RAAAH UNIONS SUCKSZ!!11 reactionary/neoliberal crowd

*cough*krazen*cough*

Anyway, I'm definitely pro-union overall, but I think there are good reasons to be more supportive of private than public sector unions. Private sector unions have to worry about driving costs up to the point where their employer has to lay people off or go into bankruptcy, while public sector unions have that problem less. Plus I generally consider the unchecked power of private corporations more of a threat to the public at large than cuts to public worker salaries.

[Franzl]

Generally positive. It's interesting that some of the worse unions (American and French) are in countries with very weak labor movements.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I'm going to stun everyone and say that I am a big fan of Trade Unions.

[patrick1]

Dues paying member of a Teamsters local here, and if you don't like unions I'll crack your head open with a stillson wrench

[Franzl]

I'm going to stun everyone and say that I am a big fan of Trade Unions.

I'm absolutely shocked.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I'm going to stun everyone and say that I am a big fan of Trade Unions.

[RogueBeaver]

Private sector unions are OK. PEUs... not so much.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Credit unions are much better than banks.

(I'm kidding on the square here.  One place I worked at just out of college, when the employees wanted to join a credit union several years before I got there, the management was originally against the idea because they confused the concept with that of a labor union.)

[opebo]

Dues paying member of a Teamsters local here, and if you don't like unions I'll crack your head open with a stillson wrench

That's the spirit!

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Conceptually, massive FO. Range from massive FO to moderate HO in practice. I'll always full-throatedly support the concept and principle.

[Cobbler]

Unions can be both good and bad (as others in this thread have said), but I believe them to be as a concept, an FO. In the US, at least, they're the reason why there's a minimum wage, 40 hour work weeks, work holidays, and so forth, after all.

This.

I think the idea of them is a good thing, but in practice, just as with any group with the power to influence, it has to be kept in check appropriately.

[Donerail]

FO.

[Sbane]

They can be good and they can be bad. They are extremely good and necessary when they are safeguarding the safety of workers. They could be ok when negotiating their salaries and benefits with corporations that might have executives making Millions. Horrible when they are negotiating their salaries and benefits at the expense of taxpayers and when politicians have an incentive to promise them goodies in the future (pensions) for votes and support in the present.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Mega-FOs.  I have 6 family members that work for the USPS and I'd hate to think of what their jobs and lives would be like without their unions.  You would not believe what management tries to get away with and how they treat their employees like garbage every chance they get. 

[CountryRoads]

They used to be mega FO's, but that was a long time ago...HO now.

[morgieb]

FO's in theory. Can be mixed in practice though.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Conceptually, massive FO. Range from massive FO to moderate HO in practice. I'll always full-throatedly support the concept and principle.

Basically this. They start out for the noblest purposes, but sometimes these purposes are corrupted by practice.

[DemPGH]

FO all the way. Without them everyone in all walks would be working under part time Wal-Mart type conditions. My dad is a forty-seven percenter who before he retired worked very hard and was fortunate to have a good union to protect his salary, insurance, and at the time, pension. Are unions always perfect or always right? No, but they are surely needed.

[opebo]

Mega-FOs.  I have 6 family members that work for the USPS and I'd hate to think of what their jobs and lives would be like without their unions.  You would not believe what management tries to get away with and how they treat their employees like garbage every chance they get. 

And I'm quite sure it is a million times as rapacious in private companies!

[DC Al Fine]

I'm a dues paying member of the Canadian Union of Pubic Employees. I really don't have any issues with unions in the private sector. If they get too rowdy, they wind up killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, so they don't bug me that much. However, my experience in the public unions is that they exist to featherbed and line the pockets of union executives, costing the already stretched middle classes far too much in extra taxes.

[Sbane]

That's another thing about unions, especially public sector unions. They will much rather (the union bosses that is) agree to layoffs than reduction in pension benefits. Why is that? Because the guy who just joined a year or two ago is the one who is going to get laid off while the bosses and others who have been working there for years (and thus the source of the problem) still get their goodies.