Presidential debate megathread (debate 1: June 27, 9pm EDT, CNN)

[VALibertarian]

This as well as criticism of Trump for using "Palestinian" as a pejorative term toward Rickety Joe.

This is what's frustrating - there were so many moments where Trump said something so insanely offensive. But there's so many that the press doesn't care about focusing on all of them and it's easier just to go with "Biden was old"

The issue as I see it, is this is just business as usual for Trump - I mean in 2020 the man was literally calling Covid the Kung Flu. Besides maybe being a little slower, Trump last night acted just as he has every other debate - he even got in a few good zingers like the killing medicaid line. The idea that Trump's offensive statements last night, when most americans don't support palestine judging by polling would convince a view he did better than Biden is ludicrous. So why would the press focus on Trump saying what he's always been doing when Biden objectively had awful presentation?

[emailking]

I tried to highlight one of the Palestinian lines.

"We have the Palestinians and everybody rioting all over the place" -Trump

But it otherwise pretty much went past here with no comment.

[wbrocks67]

I tried to highlight one of the Palestinian lines.

"We have the Palestinians and everybody rioting all over the place" -Trump

But it otherwise pretty much went past here with no comment.

Didn't he also said something like "I will finish the job" in reference to Palestinians as well?

[GeorgiaModerate]

I tried to highlight one of the Palestinian lines.

"We have the Palestinians and everybody rioting all over the place" -Trump

But it otherwise pretty much went past here with no comment.

Didn't he also said something like "I will finish the job" in reference to Palestinians as well?

I believe he said something like he'd support Israel finishing the job.

[wbrocks67]

I actually think this debate actually increases the hype that will surround the VP debate.

[GAinDC]

Good analysis by Mark Cuban. I feel the same way.

https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/1806695973298610671

[wbrocks67]

Like I don't think people understand how this seems to be resonating with different races.

https://twitter.com/estherzelda0514/status/1806698378249842772

[jojoju1998]

Like I don't think people understand how this seems to be resonating with different races.

https://twitter.com/estherzelda0514/status/1806698378249842772

Not just black democrats. Hispanics as well. That Univision focus group was very telling.

[LabourJersey]

Are Atlas and the pundit class missing the mark?

Maybe we're underestimating voters. Maybe they care more about substance than style

I know this is slightly uncouth but I have to assume the Latino focus group was watching with the sound off and with Spanish subtitles, or something similar that obfuscated Biden's doddering and highlighted Trump's lies. It's like a "Nixon won radio listeners, Kennedy won TV viewers" situation.

I'm trying to find confirmation of the use of translators, but that may be the explanation.

I hope it's not that, since it means that swing voters care about substance and not style. But I'm worried that this panel missed the worst part of Biden's performance (his voice)

[GAinDC]

Honestly, if the fallout from this debate hurts Biden with white libs who will vote for him anyway while helping him with Black and Hispanic voters who he seems to be struggling with, it might not be such a disaster after all

[wbrocks67]

Honestly, if the fallout from this debate hurts Biden with white libs who will vote for him anyway while helping him with Black and Hispanic voters who he seems to be struggling with, it might not be such a disaster after all

I'm truly curious, there was really nothing outside of 'Biden old' for nonwhite voters to be upset about - which many of them already knew he was old - but Trump went out of his way to return to his racist and race-baiting comments. Curious if nonwhite voters were more attuned to that stuff rather than Biden stuttering again.

[GAinDC]

Honestly, if the fallout from this debate hurts Biden with white libs who will vote for him anyway while helping him with Black and Hispanic voters who he seems to be struggling with, it might not be such a disaster after all

I'm truly curious, there was really nothing outside of 'Biden old' for nonwhite voters to be upset about - which many of them already knew he was old - but Trump went out of his way to return to his racist and race-baiting comments. Curious if nonwhite voters were more attuned to that stuff rather than Biden stuttering again.

I've seen so many memes this morning from Black creators on social media about the "Black jobs" comment. Funny that is barely registered last night here on Atlas but did with normies.

[wbrocks67]

Honestly, if the fallout from this debate hurts Biden with white libs who will vote for him anyway while helping him with Black and Hispanic voters who he seems to be struggling with, it might not be such a disaster after all

I'm truly curious, there was really nothing outside of 'Biden old' for nonwhite voters to be upset about - which many of them already knew he was old - but Trump went out of his way to return to his racist and race-baiting comments. Curious if nonwhite voters were more attuned to that stuff rather than Biden stuttering again.

I've seen so many memes this morning from Black creators on social media about the "Black jobs" comment. Funny that is barely registered last night here on Atlas but did with normies.

Because many people on this forum refuse to believe that they see things (all political things) through a much different lense than normal folks

[GAinDC]

Can the doomers explain this?

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1806697086395490730

[bigmike]

Honestly, if the fallout from this debate hurts Biden with white libs who will vote for him anyway while helping him with Black and Hispanic voters who he seems to be struggling with, it might not be such a disaster after all

I'm truly curious, there was really nothing outside of 'Biden old' for nonwhite voters to be upset about - which many of them already knew he was old - but Trump went out of his way to return to his racist and race-baiting comments. Curious if nonwhite voters were more attuned to that stuff rather than Biden stuttering again.

I've seen so many memes this morning from Black creators on social media about the "Black jobs" comment. Funny that is barely registered last night here on Atlas but did with normies.

This is sad.

[GAinDC]

Very bad twitter-pilled take from Wasserman:

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1806696768891167183

[kwabbit]

Can the doomers explain this?

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1806697086395490730

It's certainly possible that Biden's performance played better than pundits initially thought, but the actual viewing of the debate is a fraction of the impact. The fact that the entire political class is talking incessantly about Biden like he's an old dog about to be put down is what will harm him. In a way you can blame doomers if the debate strikes a severe blow to his campaign. If the Democratic intelligentsia all lined up and defended Biden to the hilt perhaps he would come away unscathed, but the narrative is completely set.

[wbrocks67]

Very bad twitter-pilled take from Wasserman:

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1806696768891167183

Frankly this is what I'm talking about with the pundit brain drain. You can obviously say Biden had a bad debate, that's completely fair. But the reactions from some of these people are so over the top that it's hard to take seriously.

I'm sorry, you cannot pine for how Ds are not dropping Biden after a bad debate but you were nowhere to be found to say that Rs should drop Trump after his conviction and/or January 6th.

[wbrocks67]

Can the doomers explain this?

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1806697086395490730

It's certainly possible that Biden's performance played better than pundits initially thought, but the actual viewing of the debate is a fraction of the impact. The fact that the entire political class is talking incessantly about Biden like he's an old dog about to be put down is what will harm him. In a way you can blame doomers if the debate strikes a severe blow to his campaign. If the Democratic intelligentsia all lined up and defended Biden to the hilt perhaps he would come away unscathed, but the narrative is completely set.

This is true, the coverage is making it much worse. I think if voters just saw the debate through a vaccuum, it wouldn't be as bad, but basically every headline has been editorialized on how bad it was for Biden and every pundit is saying he should drop out. Now, the thing with that is a lot of people tune these people out. But it's still a net negative for Biden that that narrative is driving all of the coverage.

But it is fascinating to me that we keep seeing viewer reactions that are completely divorced from the pundit narratives

[Buzz]

Can the doomers explain this?

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1806697086395490730

these are not serious people

[All Along The Watchtower]

Honestly, if the fallout from this debate hurts Biden with white libs who will vote for him anyway while helping him with Black and Hispanic voters who he seems to be struggling with, it might not be such a disaster after all

I'm truly curious, there was really nothing outside of 'Biden old' for nonwhite voters to be upset about - which many of them already knew he was old - but Trump went out of his way to return to his racist and race-baiting comments. Curious if nonwhite voters were more attuned to that stuff rather than Biden stuttering again.

Could be. A lot of these people who are freaking out about Biden right now, political pundits, etc. are employed in professional fields that do not merely require clear/articulate verbal communication so much as their jobs are communication (ie., the “chattering classes.”). Perhaps they are particularly attuned to Biden’s weaknesses as a communicator at the expense of substance (or Trump’s lack of substance other than racism) because they wouldn’t be employed if they were like Biden, who in any case is well past normal retirement age.

Important to remember that these professionals have never liked Biden. And just to be clear, I’m not for a moment pretending that the debate was anything but a disaster for Biden. But I also am cognizant of our (ie. regular politics watchers) prejudices. 

[kwabbit]

Can the doomers explain this?

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1806697086395490730

It's certainly possible that Biden's performance played better than pundits initially thought, but the actual viewing of the debate is a fraction of the impact. The fact that the entire political class is talking incessantly about Biden like he's an old dog about to be put down is what will harm him. In a way you can blame doomers if the debate strikes a severe blow to his campaign. If the Democratic intelligentsia all lined up and defended Biden to the hilt perhaps he would come away unscathed, but the narrative is completely set.

This is true, the coverage is making it much worse. I think if voters just saw the debate through a vaccuum, it wouldn't be as bad, but basically every headline has been editorialized on how bad it was for Biden and every pundit is saying he should drop out. Now, the thing with that is a lot of people tune these people out. But it's still a net negative for Biden that that narrative is driving all of the coverage.

But it is fascinating to me that we keep seeing viewer reactions that are completely divorced from the pundit narratives

I don't think viewer reactions are divorced from the pundit narrative. The pundits are more negative, but the most robust data we have is the CNN poll which had 67-33 Trump winning and had 5ish point movement among RVs, although the changing mind question wasn't that negative. Focus groups are mostly useless (n=15 sample size), but the Univision result was intriguing. Then you can obviously just find random people who thought Biden won, so some guy saying he's now supporting Biden doesn't mean anything.

[NHI]

Can the doomers explain this?

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1806697086395490730

these are not serious people

[Reaganfan Democrat]

There is no such thing as an undecided voter other than people declaring themselves undecided to get attention. The pollsters and political consultants try to convince us otherwise to save their useless careers.

[Agafin]

Two things that I'll say about the debate rules:

- The muted mics actually helped Trump. He couldn't interrupt Biden which just allowed everyone to see with no impediment how bad he (Biden) sounded. Hell, at several points, Dana Bash actually had to stop Biden from embarassing himself when he clearly lost his train of thoughts. I think the repeated interruptions actually hurt Trump in 2020 and led to the memorable "Would you just shut man" line.

- The lack of an audience helped Biden. Can you imagine the massive applause and laughter there would have been after some of Trump zingers? Especially those where he clearly called out Biden's flubs like when he said: "I agree, he beat medicare to death" or "I don't know what he said at the end there and I don't think he knows either".