Louisiana: The Ten Commandments must be displayed in public classrooms under new law

[jojoju1998]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

That's why, even when I was a Christian, I didn't want any of this crap in schools. I don't want the Mosaic laws plastered all over the walls. I don't want teachers leading students in some false, anti-Christ prayer. The hilarious thing is that "Christians" (there are very few of those in America, sadly) should be the ones most vocally opposed to this crap. This would force students in Catholic or Islamic communities to have Catholic or Muslim BS shoved in their faces all the time. Completely antichrist people leading kids in prayer. It's disgusting, and it's especially disgusting to see parents who claim to be Christian supporting this purely for culture-war reasons. It's so obvious this will backfire.

Also, none of this is actually good Christian evangelization.

Literally, when was the last time top down enforced Cultural Christianity worked ?

It totally worked in Europe right ? Not anymore it seems. Germany, Spain, Poland, are getting less and less religious by the day.

I'll repeat this again.

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Few people dispute both of those points

It's also true that many of the people who claim to be religious are often the worst people alive (like the Republican Louisiana governor and the Republicans in the state legislature.)

Whatever else this may be, it's pure virtue signaling.

Joe Biden claims to be a devout Catholic. ( Of course, conservative Catholics would call him a heretic for his stances on abortion and same sex marriage.)

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

That's why, even when I was a Christian, I didn't want any of this crap in schools. I don't want the Mosaic laws plastered all over the walls. I don't want teachers leading students in some false, anti-Christ prayer. The hilarious thing is that "Christians" (there are very few of those in America, sadly) should be the ones most vocally opposed to this crap. This would force students in Catholic or Islamic communities to have Catholic or Muslim BS shoved in their faces all the time. Completely antichrist people leading kids in prayer. It's disgusting, and it's especially disgusting to see parents who claim to be Christian supporting this purely for culture-war reasons. It's so obvious this will backfire.

Also, none of this is actually good Christian evangelization.

Literally, when was the last time top down enforced Cultural Christianity worked ?

It totally worked in Europe right ? Not anymore it seems. Germany, Spain, Poland, are getting less and less religious by the day.

I'll repeat this again.

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Few people dispute both of those points

It's also true that many of the people who claim to be religious are often the worst people alive (like the Republican Louisiana governor and the Republicans in the state legislature.)

Whatever else this may be, it's pure virtue signaling.

Joe Biden claims to be a devout Catholic. ( Of course, conservative Catholics would call him a heretic for his stances on abortion and same sex marriage.)

Is President Biden simultaneously complaining about 'indoctrination of students' while trying to indoctrinate students?

I'm referring to people (Republicans including some here) who use the Bible as a sword and a shield.

[DaleCooper]

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Few people dispute both of those points

I absolutely would dispute it. The 10 commandments are not and never have been an anywhere near comprehensive or even "good" guide for one to follow. Like I said in my post, the 10 commandments are not even the foundation of Christian morality. This is not some bold new revisionist take on Christianity, either. Anyone who has ever bothered to crack open a Bible and read it would know this.

[jojoju1998]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

That's why, even when I was a Christian, I didn't want any of this crap in schools. I don't want the Mosaic laws plastered all over the walls. I don't want teachers leading students in some false, anti-Christ prayer. The hilarious thing is that "Christians" (there are very few of those in America, sadly) should be the ones most vocally opposed to this crap. This would force students in Catholic or Islamic communities to have Catholic or Muslim BS shoved in their faces all the time. Completely antichrist people leading kids in prayer. It's disgusting, and it's especially disgusting to see parents who claim to be Christian supporting this purely for culture-war reasons. It's so obvious this will backfire.

Also, none of this is actually good Christian evangelization.

Literally, when was the last time top down enforced Cultural Christianity worked ?

It totally worked in Europe right ? Not anymore it seems. Germany, Spain, Poland, are getting less and less religious by the day.

I'll repeat this again.

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Few people dispute both of those points

It's also true that many of the people who claim to be religious are often the worst people alive (like the Republican Louisiana governor and the Republicans in the state legislature.)

Whatever else this may be, it's pure virtue signaling.

Joe Biden claims to be a devout Catholic. ( Of course, conservative Catholics would call him a heretic for his stances on abortion and same sex marriage.)

Is President Biden simultaneously complaining about 'indoctrination of students' while trying to indoctrinate students?

I'm referring to people (Republicans including some here) who use the Bible as a sword and a shield.

I'll bring up this study again.

https://www.lsu.edu/research/news/2020/1109-unchurched.php

"Christian nationalism is thought to have been an important factor in the election of Donald Trump as President of the United States in 2016—and likely drove many of his supporters to the polls in 2020. Now, new research shows Christian nationalist support of Trump isn’t tied to religious institutions or attending church on a regular basis. Instead, it’s tied to not attending church."

For all this talk about America is a Christian country, and the ten commandments, actual participation in Church Life is welll.... sinking with American evangelicals, and conservative Catholics.



And ironically, they're rejecting some very basic Christian beliefs.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/september-web-only/state-of-theology-evangelical-heresy-report-ligonier-survey.html

26 percent of American Evangelicals now say that the bible is not literally true. 56 percent say that Jesus or Christianity is not the only means of salvation. And 73 percent of Evangelical Christians believe that Jesus was created by god. That's Arianism ! A literal heresy ! And 43 percent say that Jesus is Not God. 60 percent say that the Holy Spirit is not a personal being. 57 percent of Evangelical Christians don't believe in Original Sin.

So. So. If they don't believe in these very core Christian beliefs, what do they believe in ?

It's like a few days ago, when the Southern Baptist Convention, rejected the Nicene Creed, but they would happilly pledge alliegience to America ( not that the pledge of alliegience is wrong in of itself but...)

Culture Wars. They believe in Culture Wars. The Evangelical Opposition to Abortion isn't even genuine, the Catholics have always been opposed to abortion.  Evangelicals only shifted in the 1970s after the desegregation movement.

[jojoju1998]

Furthermore, I'll ask any Christian Republican here. Once again, Do you really think that a enforced cultural christianity, is going to save America from the hell holes of Liberalism ?

Europe tried that approach before. Francisco Franco. Alexander Salazar. It all ended terribly. Look at Spain now. Portugal, Poland, Italy, Germany, Belgium.

They're all super secular, far more secular than the US.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

That's why, even when I was a Christian, I didn't want any of this crap in schools. I don't want the Mosaic laws plastered all over the walls. I don't want teachers leading students in some false, anti-Christ prayer. The hilarious thing is that "Christians" (there are very few of those in America, sadly) should be the ones most vocally opposed to this crap. This would force students in Catholic or Islamic communities to have Catholic or Muslim BS shoved in their faces all the time. Completely antichrist people leading kids in prayer. It's disgusting, and it's especially disgusting to see parents who claim to be Christian supporting this purely for culture-war reasons. It's so obvious this will backfire.

Also, none of this is actually good Christian evangelization.

Literally, when was the last time top down enforced Cultural Christianity worked ?

It totally worked in Europe right ? Not anymore it seems. Germany, Spain, Poland, are getting less and less religious by the day.

I'll repeat this again.

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Few people dispute both of those points

It's also true that many of the people who claim to be religious are often the worst people alive (like the Republican Louisiana governor and the Republicans in the state legislature.)

Whatever else this may be, it's pure virtue signaling.

Joe Biden claims to be a devout Catholic. ( Of course, conservative Catholics would call him a heretic for his stances on abortion and same sex marriage.)

Is President Biden simultaneously complaining about 'indoctrination of students' while trying to indoctrinate students?

I'm referring to people (Republicans including some here) who use the Bible as a sword and a shield.

I'll bring up this study again.

https://www.lsu.edu/research/news/2020/1109-unchurched.php

"Christian nationalism is thought to have been an important factor in the election of Donald Trump as President of the United States in 2016—and likely drove many of his supporters to the polls in 2020. Now, new research shows Christian nationalist support of Trump isn’t tied to religious institutions or attending church on a regular basis. Instead, it’s tied to not attending church."

For all this talk about America is a Christian country, and the ten commandments, actual participation in Church Life is welll.... sinking with American evangelicals, and conservative Catholics.



And ironically, they're rejecting some very basic Christian beliefs.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/september-web-only/state-of-theology-evangelical-heresy-report-ligonier-survey.html

26 percent of American Evangelicals now say that the bible is not literally true. 56 percent say that Jesus or Christianity is not the only means of salvation. And 73 percent of Evangelical Christians believe that Jesus was created by god. That's Arianism ! A literal heresy ! And 43 percent say that Jesus is Not God. 60 percent say that the Holy Spirit is not a personal being. 57 percent of Evangelical Christians don't believe in Original Sin.

So. So. If they don't believe in these very core Christian beliefs, what do they believe in ?

It's like a few days ago, when the Southern Baptist Convention, rejected the Nicene Creed, but they would happilly pledge alliegience to America ( not that the pledge of alliegience is wrong in of itself but...)

Culture Wars. They believe in Culture Wars. The Evangelical Opposition to Abortion isn't even genuine, the Catholics have always been opposed to abortion.  Evangelicals only shifted in the 1970s after the desegregation movement.

Data can show more than one thing though. Also from Pew:
White Non-Hispanic voters who attend religious services monthly or more often
Trump 71%
Biden 27%
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/

Overall white Non-Hispanic
Trump 58%
Biden: 41%
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2020

[jojoju1998]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

That's why, even when I was a Christian, I didn't want any of this crap in schools. I don't want the Mosaic laws plastered all over the walls. I don't want teachers leading students in some false, anti-Christ prayer. The hilarious thing is that "Christians" (there are very few of those in America, sadly) should be the ones most vocally opposed to this crap. This would force students in Catholic or Islamic communities to have Catholic or Muslim BS shoved in their faces all the time. Completely antichrist people leading kids in prayer. It's disgusting, and it's especially disgusting to see parents who claim to be Christian supporting this purely for culture-war reasons. It's so obvious this will backfire.

Also, none of this is actually good Christian evangelization.

Literally, when was the last time top down enforced Cultural Christianity worked ?

It totally worked in Europe right ? Not anymore it seems. Germany, Spain, Poland, are getting less and less religious by the day.

I'll repeat this again.

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Few people dispute both of those points

It's also true that many of the people who claim to be religious are often the worst people alive (like the Republican Louisiana governor and the Republicans in the state legislature.)

Whatever else this may be, it's pure virtue signaling.

Joe Biden claims to be a devout Catholic. ( Of course, conservative Catholics would call him a heretic for his stances on abortion and same sex marriage.)

Is President Biden simultaneously complaining about 'indoctrination of students' while trying to indoctrinate students?

I'm referring to people (Republicans including some here) who use the Bible as a sword and a shield.

I'll bring up this study again.

https://www.lsu.edu/research/news/2020/1109-unchurched.php

"Christian nationalism is thought to have been an important factor in the election of Donald Trump as President of the United States in 2016—and likely drove many of his supporters to the polls in 2020. Now, new research shows Christian nationalist support of Trump isn’t tied to religious institutions or attending church on a regular basis. Instead, it’s tied to not attending church."

For all this talk about America is a Christian country, and the ten commandments, actual participation in Church Life is welll.... sinking with American evangelicals, and conservative Catholics.



And ironically, they're rejecting some very basic Christian beliefs.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/september-web-only/state-of-theology-evangelical-heresy-report-ligonier-survey.html

26 percent of American Evangelicals now say that the bible is not literally true. 56 percent say that Jesus or Christianity is not the only means of salvation. And 73 percent of Evangelical Christians believe that Jesus was created by god. That's Arianism ! A literal heresy ! And 43 percent say that Jesus is Not God. 60 percent say that the Holy Spirit is not a personal being. 57 percent of Evangelical Christians don't believe in Original Sin.

So. So. If they don't believe in these very core Christian beliefs, what do they believe in ?

It's like a few days ago, when the Southern Baptist Convention, rejected the Nicene Creed, but they would happilly pledge alliegience to America ( not that the pledge of alliegience is wrong in of itself but...)

Culture Wars. They believe in Culture Wars. The Evangelical Opposition to Abortion isn't even genuine, the Catholics have always been opposed to abortion.  Evangelicals only shifted in the 1970s after the desegregation movement.

Data can show more than one thing though. Also from Pew:
White Non-Hispanic voters who attend religious services monthly or more often
Trump 71%
Biden 27%
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/

But the percentage of white evangelicals is shrinking. https://www.americansurveycenter.org/featured_data/white-evangelicals-represent-a-declining-portion-of-americans/#:~:text=Over%20the%20last%2020%20years,to%2021%20percent%20in%202021.

American Christianity is getting far more diverse. Look at Fuller seminary, the premier evangelical seminary on the West Coast, half of the professors there are Koreans.


Vietnamese and Hispanic Seminarians are a increasing presence in many Catholic Dioceses in the US.

Even Globally too, Christianity is moving to the south.

[Inmate Trump]

If you agree with this decision you are NOT A CHRISTIAN.

All you are is an authoritarian bigot. You are turning people AWAY from the faith with your recklessness.

And you now have no right to complain if/when non-Christian religious texts begin to be taught to kids in public school, even Satanism.



I say all of this as a Christian myself.

[°Leprechaun]

Don't get mad get even.
California needs to pass a law requiring all schools, public and private, to hang rainbow flags.

By the way, are they going to post the 10 commandments in their original language?

[LAKISYLVANIA]

This even made it into the Belgian news. Good job Louisiana for making a fool of yourself internationally.

[politicallefty]

Keep in mind that overturning Roe was only one of the major long term goals for the right-wing takeover of the courts. There is a goal and a movement which predates Roe, the return of religion and prayer into public schools. Unlike the debate over abortion, this has largely flown under the radar for the average person. They've played the long game here and I think they're winning, at least in terms of realized and potential legal victories.

Those saying this is blatantly unconstitutional are right as long as you have courts that don't relegate the Establishment Clause to a mere footnote. I've said many times here that I think Engel v. Vitale and its progeny will have a very difficult time surviving this Court and I reiterate that point now. Stone v Graham was only a 5-4 decision in 1980 and the precedent guiding that decision (Lemon) has been overruled in all but name. I am not at all optimistic about how this new law will be received by the courts and I think Louisiana is (and also remember that Louisiana is in the 5th Circuit).

[John Dule]

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

It’s utterly irrelevant bronze age horseshit.

[ProudModerate2]

Can you believe they even made a huge spectacle of this whole thing, with their pompous signing-ceremony, dignitaries standing behind the signing desk, and huge applause and hugging?
Vomit.

[wnwnwn]

Democrats should use this to try to make some kind of "comeback" with cajun catholics.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

No one is forcing your kid to attend public school.

I encourage you to think about this claim a little more carefully.

[Skill and Chance]

Serious question- the state flags of New Jersey, New York, and Virginia explicitly depict Greco-Roman goddesses.  How can one articulate a standard that would allow them to be displayed in a public school building or courthouse but forbid a passive, artistic display of the 10 Commandments?

*I can see how Louisiana's law specifically goes beyond passive art and can become a problem.

[Christian Man]

Democrats should use this to try to make some kind of "comeback" with cajun catholics.

This would've been a good strategy in a different era, but since the Moral Majority, a lot of Catholics, especially white Catholics have been aligned with Evangelicals on a lot of these issues.

[Skill and Chance]

Democrats should use this to try to make some kind of "comeback" with cajun catholics.

This would've been a good strategy in a different era, but since the Moral Majority, a lot of Catholics, especially white Catholics have been aligned with Evangelicals on a lot of these issues.

Also, it's unclear to me how this would be offensive to Catholics?  Historically, Protestants have a stronger tradition on separation of church and state than Catholics.  Are they mandating the 10 Commandments text used by a specific Protestant denomination?

[Christian Man]

Democrats should use this to try to make some kind of "comeback" with cajun catholics.

This would've been a good strategy in a different era, but since the Moral Majority, a lot of Catholics, especially white Catholics have been aligned with Evangelicals on a lot of these issues.

Also, it's unclear to me how this would be offensive to Catholics?  Historically, Protestants have a stronger tradition on separation of church and state than Catholics.  Are they mandating the 10 Commandments text used by a specific Protestant denomination?

Catholics were historically opposed to the legal moralism that many Protestants supported during the first half of the 20th century (and probably the later half of the 19th century for that matter), and that played a role into why they skewed heavily Democratic.

[DrScholl]

This sounds a lot like that stupid, made up "virtue signaling" that conservatives like to rant about liberals engaging in.

[MarkD]

Question for anyone and everyone in the forum:
What would be your reaction if a state legislature passed a law, and Governor signed it, that required all public school students -- of one particular grade, like maybe eighth grade -- watch Cecil B. DeMille's The Ten Commandments, starring Charlton Heston, every year?

[Schiff for Senate]

It's literally making a law respecting an establishment of religion. Obviously unconstitutional, and even this SCOTUS should be able to see that.

But then I suspect Landry knows that, and he allowed this to go through BECAUSE it'll give him another enemy in the culture wars.

This, and it's frustrating to me that some Democrats in the State Senate actually supported this. Ig that's what happens in a state where even the Democratic voters are mostly Christians (which is why there's less incentive for politicians to protect minority religious rights).

[politicallefty]

Question for anyone and everyone in the forum:
What would be your reaction if a state legislature passed a law, and Governor signed it, that required all public school students -- of one particular grade, like maybe eighth grade -- watch Cecil B. DeMille's The Ten Commandments, starring Charlton Heston, every year?

I would probably strike it down.

[Progressive Pessimist]

"Parental rights/choice" doesn’t apply to you unless you're Christian.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

This sounds a lot like that stupid, made up "virtue signaling" that conservatives like to rant about liberals engaging in.

This reminds me of the first Yes, Minister episode 'Open Government.' This is from the book version:
From Sir Humphrey's diaries: "I explained (to Woolley) that we are calling the White Paper 'Open Government' because you always dispose of the difficult bits in the title. It does less harm there than on the statute books.

It is the Law of Inverse Relevance: the less you intend to do about something, the more you have to keep talking about it.

So much easier for these Republicans to virtue signal about the Ten Commandments than to actually follow them.