Louisiana: The Ten Commandments must be displayed in public classrooms under new law

[Christian Man]

Blatantly unconstitutional

Separation of church & state isn't found in the constitution. The establishment clause which you may be referring to only makes it illegal to establish a state religion. This reminds me more of when South Dakota promoted "In God We Trust" which promotes the Christian ideals without forcing people to participate. If they forced kids to pray that would be a violation on Engel vs. Vitalie, but that isn't what Louisiana is doing.

[Freshly-touched grass]

Blatantly unconstitutional

Separation of church & state isn't found in the constitution. The establishment clause which you may be referring to only makes it illegal to establish a state religion. This reminds me more of when South Dakota promoted "In God We Trust" which promotes the Christian ideals without forcing people to participate. If they forced kids to pray that would be a violation on Engel vs. Vitalie, but that isn't what Louisiana is doing.

Requiring the display of the Ten Commandments is still giving favoritism to specific religious groups, which is unconstitutional. This is in violation of Stone v. Graham.

[CookieDamage]

Why are they trying to shove their lifestyles down our throats?

[Skill and Chance]

Blatantly unconstitutional

Separation of church & state isn't found in the constitution. The establishment clause which you may be referring to only makes it illegal to establish a state religion. This reminds me more of when South Dakota promoted "In God We Trust" which promotes the Christian ideals without forcing people to participate. If they forced kids to pray that would be a violation on Engel vs. Vitalie, but that isn't what Louisiana is doing.

Requiring the display of the Ten Commandments is still giving favoritism to specific religious groups, which is unconstitutional. This is in violation of Stone v. Graham.

I do think this goes too far.  At the same time, something like requiring that the 10 Commandments be taught (perhaps along with other ancient legal codes) in world history/human geography/anthropology classes seems reasonable.   

[CookieDamage]

Blatantly unconstitutional

Separation of church & state isn't found in the constitution. The establishment clause which you may be referring to only makes it illegal to establish a state religion. This reminds me more of when South Dakota promoted "In God We Trust" which promotes the Christian ideals without forcing people to participate. If they forced kids to pray that would be a violation on Engel vs. Vitalie, but that isn't what Louisiana is doing.

Requiring the display of the Ten Commandments is still giving favoritism to specific religious groups, which is unconstitutional. This is in violation of Stone v. Graham.

I do think this goes too far.  At the same time, something like requiring that the 10 Commandments be taught (perhaps along with other ancient legal codes) in world history/human geography/anthropology classes seems reasonable.  

Requiring the 10 commandments be taught is not even remotely reasonable. It's an explicitly religious code that has no place being taught in secular places. We do not need to be learning about Christian, Jewish, Quranic, Hindu etc religious/moral laws in school, be serious. It is not a public school's duty to teach religious legal codes their students

[Skill and Chance]

Blatantly unconstitutional

Separation of church & state isn't found in the constitution. The establishment clause which you may be referring to only makes it illegal to establish a state religion. This reminds me more of when South Dakota promoted "In God We Trust" which promotes the Christian ideals without forcing people to participate. If they forced kids to pray that would be a violation on Engel vs. Vitalie, but that isn't what Louisiana is doing.

Requiring the display of the Ten Commandments is still giving favoritism to specific religious groups, which is unconstitutional. This is in violation of Stone v. Graham.

That was a 5/4 decision with a way less conservative court, so I don't think this is a done deal at all at the current SCOTUS.  Particularly because it's a state law.  It's well known now that Clarence Thomas doesn't think the Establishment Clause applies to the states at all, and that seems like something he could get Gorsuch on, too.  While uncertain, it's very plausible they could find 5 conservative votes that this passes a history and tradition test.

[Skill and Chance]

Blatantly unconstitutional

Separation of church & state isn't found in the constitution. The establishment clause which you may be referring to only makes it illegal to establish a state religion. This reminds me more of when South Dakota promoted "In God We Trust" which promotes the Christian ideals without forcing people to participate. If they forced kids to pray that would be a violation on Engel vs. Vitalie, but that isn't what Louisiana is doing.

Requiring the display of the Ten Commandments is still giving favoritism to specific religious groups, which is unconstitutional. This is in violation of Stone v. Graham.

I do think this goes too far.  At the same time, something like requiring that the 10 Commandments be taught (perhaps along with other ancient legal codes) in world history/human geography/anthropology classes seems reasonable.   

Requiring the 10 commandments be taught is not even remotely reasonable. It's an explicitly religious code that has no place being taught in secular places. We do not need to be learning about Christian, Jewish, Quranic, Hindu etc religious/moral laws in school, be serious. It is not a public school's duty to teach religious legal codes their students

Yeah, I think that was too strong.  Still, there's a fine line here, particularly in history class.  For example, how can one explain the causes of the 30 Years War or the Crusades without teaching religion by this definition?  It requires pretty detailed discussion of far more sectarian doctrines than the 10 Commandments.  In either case, students will likely end up literally reading letters from the Pope!

[Fuzzy Bear]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Kids should absolutely be taught about the Ten Commandments, being perhaps the most powerful moral precepts to ever exist in written form, but having a poster on a wall is obviously a step far beyond that. This will probably be struck down.

Although, people calling this “fascism” really goes to show just how much memories of World War II have faded away. Putting up a poster is not “fascism”, nor is it why fascism is bad.

“The most powerful moral precepts to ever exist” don’t say anything about rape?

[DaleCooper]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

That's why, even when I was a Christian, I didn't want any of this crap in schools. I don't want the Mosaic laws plastered all over the walls. I don't want teachers leading students in some false, anti-Christ prayer. The hilarious thing is that "Christians" (there are very few of those in America, sadly) should be the ones most vocally opposed to this crap. This would force students in Catholic or Islamic communities to have Catholic or Muslim BS shoved in their faces all the time. Completely antichrist people leading kids in prayer. It's disgusting, and it's especially disgusting to see parents who claim to be Christian supporting this purely for culture-war reasons. It's so obvious this will backfire.

[Hindsight was 2020]

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Some of them are. There's no secular reason to tell people to have no gods before God, or to keep the Sabbath holy.

On the first one, there is, but the pseudo religious have long misinterpreted it.

In context, it was clearly also meant to mean that humans should not worship other humans which is a very important secular message for all those in the cult who worship Trump or others who worship, for example, Elon Musk.

That interpretation is consistent with the passage 'No man is righteous, not even one.'

It was a message at the micro and macro level for humans to be humble. This is why I don't like statues of humans (except in contexts where the statue is specific like in a museum.)

This is also similar to the misinterpretation by the pseudo religious of the passage 'thou shall not take the name of the Lord in vain' as to mean 'don't say 'damn.'' When it clearly primarily means  'don't invoke the Lord to make a specious or self serving argument.'

However, in my case, I'm an exception. Lord, it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way.

I like the song

This is definitely a conversation meant more for the religious thread but in the actual Old Testament context the first commandment was explicitly about condemning paganism and affirming there is only one god (Yahweh/IAM). The reason God makes the commandments is some of the Jewish people were turning to the Egyptian Gods or others deity’s like the Golden Bull to worship as the God who delivered them out of Egypt so the 10 commandments was about God reaffirming his covenant with the Jewish people

[Hindsight was 2020]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

There’s failing to always keep the Commandments via being a human and naturally flaw vs treating them as a personal dare like Trump does

[Skill and Chance]

Kids should absolutely be taught about the Ten Commandments, being perhaps the most powerful moral precepts to ever exist in written form, but having a poster on a wall is obviously a step far beyond that. This will probably be struck down.

Although, people calling this “fascism” really goes to show just how much memories of World War II have faded away. Putting up a poster is not “fascism”, nor is it why fascism is bad.

“The most powerful moral precepts to ever exist” don’t say anything about rape?

“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife” pretty obviously includes rape, as well as other forms of sexual harassment short of rape.  And in an original context where essentially all adults were married, the reach was more universal than it may sound today.

[jojoju1998]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

That's why, even when I was a Christian, I didn't want any of this crap in schools. I don't want the Mosaic laws plastered all over the walls. I don't want teachers leading students in some false, anti-Christ prayer. The hilarious thing is that "Christians" (there are very few of those in America, sadly) should be the ones most vocally opposed to this crap. This would force students in Catholic or Islamic communities to have Catholic or Muslim BS shoved in their faces all the time. Completely antichrist people leading kids in prayer. It's disgusting, and it's especially disgusting to see parents who claim to be Christian supporting this purely for culture-war reasons. It's so obvious this will backfire.

Also, none of this is actually good Christian evangelization.

Literally, when was the last time top down enforced Cultural Christianity worked ?

It totally worked in Europe right ? Not anymore it seems. Germany, Spain, Poland, are getting less and less religious by the day.

[Green Line]

Should be a nationwide policy.  If the DoE isn’t abolished it can at least be used for stuff like this.

[ProudModerate2]

I swear, Republicans are turning back time, on everything.
Remove women rights and their ability of choice re their bodies.
Demonize the LBGT community.
Remove (burn) books in our schools and libraries.
Deny science and make a mockery of the recent world pandemic.
Next they will advocate for people be burned at the stake.

[jojoju1998]

I swear, Republicans are turning back time, on everything.
Remove women rights and their ability of choice re their bodies.
Demonize the LBGT community.
Remove (burn) books in our schools and libraries.
Deny science and make a mockery of the recent world pandemic.
Next they will advocate for people be burned at the stake.

I mean that has been the whole Republican Project since 1932. Repeal the New Deal. Repeal the Great Society. Everything. Everything.

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

Biden needs to ask Trump to condemn this in the debate. Associate Trump with these toxic religious zealots!

That would probably backfire. Biden should instead ask Trump whether he can name the ten commandments and follow them. Especially about truth telling.

Christ shed His Blood and died the Death of the Cross as a perfect sacrifice for OUR sins, and OUR inability to keep the Commandments.

Okay, Pharisee.

[DaleCooper]

Kids should absolutely be taught about the Ten Commandments, being perhaps the most powerful moral precepts to ever exist in written form, but having a poster on a wall is obviously a step far beyond that. This will probably be struck down.

Although, people calling this “fascism” really goes to show just how much memories of World War II have faded away. Putting up a poster is not “fascism”, nor is it why fascism is bad.

“The most powerful moral precepts to ever exist” don’t say anything about rape?

“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife” pretty obviously includes rape, as well as other forms of sexual harassment short of rape.  And in an original context where essentially all adults were married, the reach was more universal than it may sound today.

This is a really big reach. Even if that does include rape, it specifically would only have included rape of a married woman who is not your wife. Of course there's obviously the famous law in Deuteronomy requiring rapists to marry their unmarried victims, plus back then rape victims were required to protest adequately during the act. Rape was not taken seriously in the ancient world, including among the ancient Israelites, and when it was it was basically treated as a property crime. That doesn't even address pedophilia which is not condemned at all in the Bible.

I'm not bringing this up to stir up outrage over how "problematic" people were over 2000 years ago, I just think it's irritating when people try to apply all their modern morality to ancient documents. To pretend that the Ten Commandments were the foundation of modern morality is incredibly absurd. They aren't even the foundation of Christian morality.  

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Some of them are. There's no secular reason to tell people to have no gods before God, or to keep the Sabbath holy.

On the first one, there is, but the pseudo religious have long misinterpreted it.

In context, it was clearly also meant to mean that humans should not worship other humans which is a very important secular message for all those in the cult who worship Trump or others who worship, for example, Elon Musk.

That interpretation is consistent with the passage 'No man is righteous, not even one.'

It was a message at the micro and macro level for humans to be humble. This is why I don't like statues of humans (except in contexts where the statue is specific like in a museum.)

This is also similar to the misinterpretation by the pseudo religious of the passage 'thou shall not take the name of the Lord in vain' as to mean 'don't say 'damn.'' When it clearly primarily means  'don't invoke the Lord to make a specious or self serving argument.'

This is definitely a conversation meant more for the religious thread but in the actual Old Testament context the first commandment was explicitly about condemning paganism and affirming there is only one god (Yahweh/IAM). The reason God makes the commandments is some of the Jewish people were turning to the Egyptian Gods or others deity’s like the Golden Bull to worship as the God who delivered them out of Egypt so the 10 commandments was about God reaffirming his covenant with the Jewish people

Yes, certainly, but I think it was also meant to be a 'warning' against those who were following 'gurus' and others at that time and wanted people to worship them.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Kids should absolutely be taught about the Ten Commandments, being perhaps the most powerful moral precepts to ever exist in written form, but having a poster on a wall is obviously a step far beyond that. This will probably be struck down.

Although, people calling this “fascism” really goes to show just how much memories of World War II have faded away. Putting up a poster is not “fascism”, nor is it why fascism is bad.

“The most powerful moral precepts to ever exist” don’t say anything about rape?

“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife” pretty obviously includes rape, as well as other forms of sexual harassment short of rape.  And in an original context where essentially all adults were married, the reach was more universal than it may sound today.

Well, good to know rape is bad because it involves coveting something that belongs to someone else! We can recognize that there are strong and well-developed Christian sexual ethics without trying to shoehorn everything into a partial list taken from the 613 actual commandments given to the Jewish people.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

I really don't care personally, but I'm sure if I brought in copies of the Sahih al-Bukhari and put it up in a classroom I taught in there wouldn't be any problems, right?

[Badger]

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Few people dispute both of those points

[Benjamin Frank 2.0]

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Few people dispute both of those points

It's also true that many of the people who claim to be religious are often the worst people alive (like the Republican Louisiana governor and the Republicans in the state legislature.)

Whatever else this may be, it's pure virtue signaling.

[Badger]

I can understand how this could be a 1A issue, but the 10 commandments is a good guide to follow regardless of one's religious beliefs.

Few people dispute both of those points

It's also true that many of the people who claim to be religious are often the worst people alive (like the Republican Louisiana governor and the Republicans in the state legislature.)

Whatever else this may be, it's pure virtue signaling.

Huge huge difference between people who are genuinely religious and those who desire involuntary proselytization through public entities.