Diplomacy Dreams

[GeorgiaModerate]

While waiting for the next turn, here's something you all might find interesting.  The very first game or two of Diplomacy I ever played was at the house of a college friend in the mid-1970s -- and he had the original 1958 set, which had very different rules!  Among those that I recall:

1. Convoys, as they exist in the modern game, did not exist.  A fleet could still transport an army, but it would require them both moving to the same coastal space (this was allowed), the army boarding the fleet, and the fleet carrying it to another coastal space to disembark.

2. Switzerland wasn't impassable; in fact, it was a neutral supply center.  So was Albania, IIRC.

3. Some of the borders were different.  There were more spaces, both land and sea (the map territory was somewhat larger) and some of the existing ones were differently shaped than in the current game.  There was an extra sea space (Kattegat) around Denmark and Sweden, which made getting out of the Baltic even more of a pain than it is now.  I don't think Helgoland Bight existed.

4. Finland was bicoastal (north and south), which meant that Norway and St. Pete didn't touch.

There were very likely other differences that I've forgotten.

[GeorgiaModerate]

While waiting for the next turn, here's something you all might find interesting.  The very first game or two of Diplomacy I ever played was at the house of a college friend in the mid-1970s -- and he had the original 1958 set, which had very different rules!  Among those that I recall:

1. Convoys, as they exist in the modern game, did not exist.  A fleet could still transport an army, but it would require them both moving to the same coastal space (this was allowed), the army boarding the fleet, and the fleet carrying it to another coastal space to disembark.

2. Switzerland wasn't impassable; in fact, it was a neutral supply center.  So was Albania, IIRC.

3. Some of the borders were different.  There were more spaces, both land and sea (the map territory was somewhat larger) and some of the existing ones were differently shaped than in the current game.  There was an extra sea space (Kattegat) around Denmark and Sweden, which made getting out of the Baltic even more of a pain than it is now.  I don't think Helgoland Bight existed.

4. Finland was bicoastal (north and south), which meant that Norway and St. Pete didn't touch.

There were very likely other differences that I've forgotten.

Did the original map have the redrawn Italy with Milan?

It definitely would be interesting if Switzerland were kept a neutral supply center. I'd imagine that having two powers with armies directly adjacent to it and two powers only separated by one non-neutral center could make for an interesting dynamic, or even give Italy a fairer advantage by putting that within reach besides Tunis.

I found a copy of the original map: https://diplomacyzines.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/original-scaled.gif.  There was no Milan space, but Italy did have an extra province (Calabria) in the toe of the boot.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The problem was that the site's web certificate expired last night at midnight GMT.  I let Virginia know and she got a new one.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The die is cast and which way will the winds blow...

And the metaphors are well mixed…

[GeorgiaModerate]

The die is cast and which way will the winds blow...

And the metaphors are well mixed…

He's an old-fashioned guy, GM. Very allegorical.

Hey I resent that slightly considering by my reconning GM at 10+ years of life on me, although I will turn (50) this coming Fall.

Much closer to 20 than 10, in fact.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Another suggestion: as a global reference, post the deadlines in UTC as well as EST/EDT, e.g. "next deadline is 10:00pm EDT on Monday, March 18 (02:00am UTC on Tuesday, March 19)".

[GeorgiaModerate]

In the email judges I used to play on, there was a deadline after which you were marked late, followed by a grace period.  If a player went past the grace period, the judge automatically kicked them out of the game, or if a player was late too many times without a valid excuse (like power was out for a week due to a hurricane - I saw that happen to a player once) the GM had the option to replace them.  So how about a policy like this going forward:

1. If a player is late more than 3 times (feel free to suggest other values) without a valid excuse, you should seek a replacement.

2. If a player is late more than 24 hours (feel free to suggest other values) without contacting you or this thread, you should seek a replacement.

3. You could also choose to poll the other players (privately if you wish) in the above situations to see how they feel about replacing someone.  It is always disruptive to replace a player.  But the final decision should be the GM's.

Thoughts?

[GeorgiaModerate]

In the email judges I used to play on, there was a deadline after which you were marked late, followed by a grace period.  If a player went past the grace period, the judge automatically kicked them out of the game, or if a player was late too many times without a valid excuse (like power was out for a week due to a hurricane - I saw that happen to a player once) the GM had the option to replace them.  So how about a policy like this going forward:

1. If a player is late more than 3 times (feel free to suggest other values) without a valid excuse, you should seek a replacement.

2. If a player is late more than 24 hours (feel free to suggest other values) without contacting you or this thread, you should seek a replacement.

3. You could also choose to poll the other players (privately if you wish) in the above situations to see how they feel about replacing someone.  It is always disruptive to replace a player.  But the final decision should be the GM's.

Thoughts?

Addendum: it's perfectly reasonable to request deadline extensions for sudden emergencies or known absences (I'm probably going to request one myself soon for a medical procedure), and these should be granted unless they're excessive.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I can also believe IBNU may have been thrown off by the US switching to DST last Sunday, since Singapore doesn't do DST.  These transitions can be a real hassle in international situations.  (I work with people in North America, Europe, Asia, and Australia, in countries that have mostly different (or no) DST schemes.  Keeping track of the time differences between all of us becomes quite interesting at this time of year.)

[GeorgiaModerate]

I can also believe IBNU may have been thrown off by the US switching to DST last Sunday, since Singapore doesn't do DST.  These transitions can be a real hassle in international situations.  (I work with people in North America, Europe, Asia, and Australia, in countries that have mostly different (or no) DST schemes.  Keeping track of the time differences between all of us becomes quite interesting at this time of year.)

Good point....

Considering that in the mix, my opinion would be to simply accept the orders and move on in this particular situation without any sanctions, and allow the GM to issue policies (with player input) regarding late order posting that strikes the right balance between maintaining a level gameplaying field for all, reduces the chance of game instability caused by previous GM's automatic HOLD policy if orders are received late, does not use excessively punitive measures for what is an honest mistake possibly compounded by time zone changes, maintains a consistent player pool, but also ensures that everyone feels comfortable that we are all held to the same standards and expectations, while also simultaneously recognizing that we are simply all human and sometimes s**t happens.

This is possibly a record for the longest single-sentence post ever.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Venice has armies from 5 different countries on its borders. Don’t think I’ve ever seen something like that before.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Order Results:
   
Austria:
Austria: A Gal S A Ukr - War
Austria: F Ion C A Gre - Apu
Austria: A Mos S A Ukr - War
Austria: A Tri H
Austria: A Ukr - War
Austria: A Vie S A Tri
     
England:
England: A Bel - Bur / Bounced with Gas (1 against 1). Dislodged from Ruh (2 against 1).
England: F Eng H
England: F Nth C A Yor - Bel / Dislodged from Hol (3 against 1).
England: F Nwg H
England: A Yor - Bel Convoy path failed.
       
France:
France: F Bre - Eng / Bounced with Eng (1 against 1).
France: A Gas - Bur / Bounced with Bel (1 against 1).
France: A Mar - Pie
France: A Pic S A Ruh - Bel
France: F Spa (SC) - Mao
     
Germany:
Germany: F Den S F Hol - Nth
Germany: F Hol - Nth
Germany: A Mun - Tyr
Germany: F Nwy S F Hol - Nth
Germany: A Ruh - Bel
Germany: A Sil S A Lvn - War
     
Italy:
Italy: F Tun - Ion / Bounced with Ion (1 against 2).
Italy: A Tyr - Ven
Italy: F Tys S A Ven - Rom
Italy: A Ven - Rom
     
Russia:
Russia: A Lvn - War / Failed.
Russia: F Stp (SC) H
 
Turkey:
Turkey: F Aeg - Gre
Turkey: F Bla S A Sev
Turkey: F Eas S F Ion
Turkey: A Gre - Apu / Convoy path taken: Gre;Ion;Apu.
Turkey: A Nap S A Gre - Apu
Turkey: A Sev H

We are now in the Fall 1903 RETREAT Phase. IBNU has until 10:00 PM EST / 2:00 AM UTC on Saturday, March 23rd to provide retreat/disband orders for the following units:

F Nth
A Bel

Ummm... unless I am mistaken shouldn't their be a similar requirement for Russia?

England has to do his retreats first, then we do the adjustments.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I remembered what I believe was another odd difference in the original 1958 game, having to do with cutting support.  Presently, a unit being attacked can't cut support of the attack on itself -- but in the original game, it could! 

To illustrate, suppose there was an Austrian army in Constantinople, with Turkish armies in Smyrna and Ankara, and no other units in position to affect things.  In the modern game, Turkey can successfully dislodge Austria by having either Smy or Ank support the other into Con.  But in the original game, the defending unit had a 50-50 chance of guessing right and cutting support, defeating the attack.  That is, if Turkey ordered Ank-Con, Smy S Ank-Con, an Austrian order of Con-Smy would cut the support and the attack would fail!  (If the attack had come the other way, Ank S Smy-Con, it would succeed.)  Allowing the defender a 50-50 chance of surviving in this situation was clearly an imbalance, and is undoubtedly why the rule was changed.

[GeorgiaModerate]

And a brief clip from Casablanca:

Les Jeux sont faits...

One of my favorite movies ever.

Probably the greatest ever.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Note to everyone: I will be undergoing a medical procedure on Friday and will be unavailable after the morning hours.  If I don't answer you during that time, that's why.  If there's a deadline that falls on Friday night and I have orders due for it, please extend it by 24 hours.  Thanks.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Hi folks,

I'm home and all is good.  A bit groggy but I should be fine by tomorrow.  Since I don't have a retreat to make I would say carry on at this point.

Thanks,
GM

[GeorgiaModerate]

Hey y'all - wanted to raise that I'm about to hit finals season here which may make my continued play a bit more difficult. I'm happy to continue for the time being, but was wondering if anyone had any interest in subbing for me in the near to medium term (next 1 to 2 weeks). Not a crisis now, but wanted to raise for the future.

Happy to hand over whenever a replacement is found

I'll do it!  It would be interesting to see if I could bring it to a GT 2-way draw against united opposition.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I have no objection to changing the movement turns to 72 hours if it would help YPestis stay in the game.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Welcome, Gustaf!  Please know that everyone in the game is peaceful, friendly, and honest.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The GM's decision on England's removals appears to be in accord with the closest situation in the Rules of Diplomacy (https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/diplomacy.pdf).  In the section on Civil Disorder, it says: "If a country in civil disorder has to remove units, the units farthest from the country are removed first."  Keeping the unit in the last home supply center is certainly within the spirit of this rule.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Kind of amazing to me that St Petersburg stands. Almost hurts a little that the proud Russian capital is too minor and of little note to bother taking.

You could be like one of those Japanese soldiers in remote island outposts who never knew that World War II was over and kept on "fighting" for many years after...

[GeorgiaModerate]

Um, it’s the Italian army in Venice that was dislodged. The army in Rome is Turkish and not dislodged.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Prediction: the Italian government in exile in Tunis will survive to the end.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Do I need to say I'm disbanding the fleet?

Because I am, obviously.

Been a pleasure, gents.

Old saying: sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Do I need to say I'm disbanding the fleet?

Because I am, obviously.

Been a pleasure, gents.

Yeah, although we struck the fatal blow, I very much look forward to seeing you in future games. Thanks for being a good sport and also committing to the deadlines. Tip of my hat to you!

Seconded!