"The case for showing up to church—even if you don’t believe in God"

[LabourJersey]

Found this article in America magazine and found it extremely interesting to read.

The author's experience about the pure value of inter-generation community that church can provide like no other institutions rings so true for me. I never had much interaction with retirees and older people in general in my area until I started going to church more regularly.

I have a stronger belief than the author, though like many Christians I do experience doubts time and again about what God really does call us to do on this Earth. Though I think her actions of showing up suggest a more clear faith than many others have.

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2024/06/11/church-community-nones-247904

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The societal benefits of religious adherence is something that have been much discussed, especially the question of how one can capture these benefits without being religious. I remember watching a TED Talk about something the speaker termed "Atheism 2.0".

     What strikes me about the concept of a secular church (which is not identical to the thesis of this article but is related) is that it makes it little different from other modes of socialization like bowling leagues and rotary clubs, so if those are not filling the space why should this? The problem that Millennials and Zoomers face is that there is a growing disinterest in all forms of in-person social interaction. It is true that religion has historically been a uniquely powerful factor in bringing people together, but that has been founded in a belief in the reality of the soul and the afterlife. Removing those factors, I don't see why people who are not able to convince themselves to socialize in other ways will suddenly find success with this. The author cites moral priorities and instruction as to why this should be different, but if I were still an atheist would I be interested in what the Life of St. Mary of Egypt or St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans has to say? No, I wouldn't.

     With that said, I am happy that the author is finding fulfillment in attending church, even if her faith is not very strong. God willing she is able to grow in her faith over time. But I am skeptical that the blueprint she provides would work for irreligious people outside of a tiny minority.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I attended church almost weekly for about two years and it was definitely a positive experience. I would have continued to if not for COVID and then my living situation making that difficult.

[Battista Minola 1616]

I wish this were not the case but my personal experience has been wholly unlike the concept described here. My church attendance has admittedly been fairly sporadic - especially in the last half year - but I have never developed any meaningful interactions directly out of it except with my priest. Church-associated activities that aren't attending services per se have been better, but still unable to grow into stronger bonds, be fulfilling over the longer term, or make me overcome certain stumbling blocks. Besides, the inter-generational aspect has been truly inexistent.

One time I encountered a very different and closer sense of community was when I attended Anglican Mass in Genoa last year. It seemed obvious to me that that was intrinsically related to that church being very small and unlike everything else in its surroundings, in a way that cannot be replicated by the average (Catholic) parish in this country; that said the article in question also mentions an Anglo-Catholic church, so perhaps that religious tradition is naturally better at these things. Congratulations if so.

To the extent that I've experienced such a fulfilling community experience it has been with theatre class in the past year, which echoes the point others have made (and I am not even an atheist). I would certainly not claim that is for everyone; however I hope everyone finds something that works for them.

[RINO Tom]

Obviously, first and foremost ... everyone has a different personal experience, and I respect that.  With that said, my wife and I have unambiguously had a positive experience since we started attending church again.  She was a lapsed Catholic that probably had not been since she was in early college, and I was a not-quite-lapsed Lutheran (never attended church because my parents stopped going to their church back home because they thought it became too liberal, and I was pretty much a C&E Club attendee at that point).

We both started going again when she got pregnant last summer, because we wanted our son baptized.  It has been a truly great experience, and I genuinely have enjoyed my Sundays (complete with a nice, boozy post-church brunch) much more than before.  While I do indeed accept the historic and philosophical claims of Christianity as true (at least the major ones, anyway, like the Resurrection), I indeed think that the experience of belonging to and attending a church of your preference is positive for the great majority of people.  I would argue that the Religious Nones I know personally who do not attend a church have pretty much tried to fill that void with other exercises in trying to find a communal belonging and/or "spiritual" meaning that have not been quite as effective.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Religion is a way to mourn the death of a Loved one, so since we all gonna die if you aren't part of a Church, the undertaker at the Funeral Home Eulogized you anyways if you have loved ones


Since, I have my relatives in Dallas they will take care of my final arrangements that's why it's important to go to Church.

Life is short I remember in 2008 I was in my 20s and had my mom now I am 47 without mom

[pikachu]

I tried doing my version of this for the reasons others have laid out here - finding a sense of meaning and community and tbqh, I found the experience to not be fulfilling. This might speak to my personal sense of insecurity, but it just felt very weird to be around people who really believed while I was there for different reasons. I have sympathy for the functional argument for religion, but I'm not sure how well it works on a personal level if you don't actually believe.

(As a tangent, I wish there were more articles in this genre from people with a non-Christian background. I've gotten the suggestion of going to church from some people irl, but that strikes me as trading in one form of alienation for another.)

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

As I stated we don't know if life is eternal when we die but reincarnation doesn't mean you come back right away, it's a theory like resurrection. Since God hasn't come back as promised to Judge the world, there is a belief now when among Christians as in reincarnation. But, it's not forever it's done end point

Of course there is a belief in a Higher power, but we want to believe in an after life too

[RINO Tom]

I tried doing my version of this for the reasons others have laid out here - finding a sense of meaning and community and tbqh, I found the experience to not be fulfilling. This might speak to my personal sense of insecurity, but it just felt very weird to be around people who really believed while I was there for different reasons. I have sympathy for the functional argument for religion, but I'm not sure how well it works on a personal level if you don't actually believe.

(As a tangent, I wish there were more articles in this genre from people with a non-Christian background. I've gotten the suggestion of going to church from some people irl, but that strikes me as trading in one form of alienation for another.)

Yeah, this is why I tried to emphasize in my post that what works for one person might not work for another.  I also think that where someone is in his/her life makes a huge difference, and I don't just mean someone's age.  While I never lost an intellectual belief in SOME type of God and certainly remained a cultural/nominal Lutheran at least in name in my decade plus of not attending church, I am not sure I would have "taken to" going to church again if my wife weren't pregnant (great excuse to prevent you from being out super late on Saturday nights, lol...) with our son on the way.  It kind of started with me wanting him baptized as everyone else in our family on both sides had been, and that powerful-if-surface-level motivator kind of morphed into an actual and true theology that I'm not even sure I knew I had.  And, of course, some other people might try the exact same thing in the exact same situation and not really be moved.

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind sharing, what denomination did you try out?

[pikachu]

I tried doing my version of this for the reasons others have laid out here - finding a sense of meaning and community and tbqh, I found the experience to not be fulfilling. This might speak to my personal sense of insecurity, but it just felt very weird to be around people who really believed while I was there for different reasons. I have sympathy for the functional argument for religion, but I'm not sure how well it works on a personal level if you don't actually believe.

(As a tangent, I wish there were more articles in this genre from people with a non-Christian background. I've gotten the suggestion of going to church from some people irl, but that strikes me as trading in one form of alienation for another.)

Yeah, this is why I tried to emphasize in my post that what works for one person might not work for another.  I also think that where someone is in his/her life makes a huge difference, and I don't just mean someone's age.  While I never lost an intellectual belief in SOME type of God and certainly remained a cultural/nominal Lutheran at least in name in my decade plus of not attending church, I am not sure I would have "taken to" going to church again if my wife weren't pregnant (great excuse to prevent you from being out super late on Saturday nights, lol...) with our son on the way.  It kind of started with me wanting him baptized as everyone else in our family on both sides had been, and that powerful-if-surface-level motivator kind of morphed into an actual and true theology that I'm not even sure I knew I had.  And, of course, some other people might try the exact same thing in the exact same situation and not really be moved.

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind sharing, what denomination did you try out?

A bunch of Hindu temples around NYC haha, which is where the interest in non-Christian perspectives comes from. Even as someone who grew in a secular Indian household and with most of my South Asian friends now being secular too, being a regular church attendee would obv be a massive social/cultural shift in a way that it isn't for a typical American none. 

[RINO Tom]

I tried doing my version of this for the reasons others have laid out here - finding a sense of meaning and community and tbqh, I found the experience to not be fulfilling. This might speak to my personal sense of insecurity, but it just felt very weird to be around people who really believed while I was there for different reasons. I have sympathy for the functional argument for religion, but I'm not sure how well it works on a personal level if you don't actually believe.

(As a tangent, I wish there were more articles in this genre from people with a non-Christian background. I've gotten the suggestion of going to church from some people irl, but that strikes me as trading in one form of alienation for another.)

Yeah, this is why I tried to emphasize in my post that what works for one person might not work for another.  I also think that where someone is in his/her life makes a huge difference, and I don't just mean someone's age.  While I never lost an intellectual belief in SOME type of God and certainly remained a cultural/nominal Lutheran at least in name in my decade plus of not attending church, I am not sure I would have "taken to" going to church again if my wife weren't pregnant (great excuse to prevent you from being out super late on Saturday nights, lol...) with our son on the way.  It kind of started with me wanting him baptized as everyone else in our family on both sides had been, and that powerful-if-surface-level motivator kind of morphed into an actual and true theology that I'm not even sure I knew I had.  And, of course, some other people might try the exact same thing in the exact same situation and not really be moved.

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind sharing, what denomination did you try out?

A bunch of Hindu temples around NYC haha, which is where the interest in non-Christian perspectives comes from. Even as someone who grew in a secular Indian household and with most of my South Asian friends now being secular too, being a regular church attendee would obv be a massive social/cultural shift in a way that it isn't for a typical American none. 

Gotcha, thanks for sharing.  Yeah, I cannot exactly speak with any knowledge on that subject!  Lol.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Obviously, first and foremost ... everyone has a different personal experience, and I respect that.  With that said, my wife and I have unambiguously had a positive experience since we started attending church again.  She was a lapsed Catholic that probably had not been since she was in early college, and I was a not-quite-lapsed Lutheran (never attended church because my parents stopped going to their church back home because they thought it became too liberal, and I was pretty much a C&E Club attendee at that point).

We both started going again when she got pregnant last summer, because we wanted our son baptized.  It has been a truly great experience, and I genuinely have enjoyed my Sundays (complete with a nice, boozy post-church brunch) much more than before.  While I do indeed accept the historic and philosophical claims of Christianity as true (at least the major ones, anyway, like the Resurrection), I indeed think that the experience of belonging to and attending a church of your preference is positive for the great majority of people.  I would argue that the Religious Nones I know personally who do not attend a church have pretty much tried to fill that void with other exercises in trying to find a communal belonging and/or "spiritual" meaning that have not been quite as effective.

Congrats on the kid!

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Reviving my church attendance is definitely on my list of things to do once I acquire a permanent address, both in order to try to kickstart some sense of community in what will be a new city, and in the hope that something "more" might come of it. I'm not entirely optimistic in regards to either goal, but I would like to marry Catholic, so I figure it's something to be strived for.

I don't know how well this strategy would work for someone outside, or on the margins, of their chosen denomination's tradition. I know a few cultural Christians (including a sort-of Catholic) with varying levels of church attendance that probably wouldn't take well to a priest going out of his way to mention abortion. Beyond political issues, the attribution of things in the temporal world to the divine, or mentions of miracles from the Bible, can feel odd if it's not something to which you're already accustomed.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Reviving my church attendance is definitely on my list of things to do once I acquire a permanent address, both in order to try to kickstart some sense of community in what will be a new city, and in the hope that something "more" might come of it. I'm not entirely optimistic in regards to either goal, but I would like to marry Catholic, so I figure it's something to be strived for.

I don't know how well this strategy would work for someone outside, or on the margins, of their chosen denomination's tradition. I know a few cultural Christians (including a sort-of Catholic) with varying levels of church attendance that probably wouldn't take well to a priest going out of his way to mention abortion. Beyond political issues, the attribution of things in the temporal world to the divine, or mentions of miracles from the Bible, can feel odd if it's not something to which you're already accustomed.

     A challenge here is the extent to which irreligious Americans are a big tent. As someone who came from a background of materialism, I identify heavily with the challenges you mention. Not all unaffiliated people are like that though, and the classification of irreligious or unchurched Americans will include people like Marianne Williamson and other adherents of New Age spiritualities; these people will not struggle with concepts of miracles or the divine, but if you put them in a Roman Catholic church they would still find themselves uneasy with the weight placed on creeds and dogmatic statements that aren't terribly relevant to their own faith practice.

[Skill and Chance]

I think this is reasonable advice for people whose religious views are "whatever."  I don't think it applies to committed non-theists or spiritualist/new age types.  The latter usually pass through the "whatever" stage 1st if they do end up in an Abrahamic faith later in life.

[Torie]

Makes sense, so says this particular atheist.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I went to church for the first time (excluding times where I was forced to go as a kid) in a weird state where I was very open to Christianity but wasn't quite sure if I fully believed (and with almost zero knowledge of what a Christian actually was beyond believing in Jesus).  I found the experience to be very uplifting when I was in that stage of life.  But, if I'd gone a few years earlier (when I was a staunch atheist), I wouldn't have been open to having the same experience.

[RINO Tom]

Obviously, first and foremost ... everyone has a different personal experience, and I respect that.  With that said, my wife and I have unambiguously had a positive experience since we started attending church again.  She was a lapsed Catholic that probably had not been since she was in early college, and I was a not-quite-lapsed Lutheran (never attended church because my parents stopped going to their church back home because they thought it became too liberal, and I was pretty much a C&E Club attendee at that point).

We both started going again when she got pregnant last summer, because we wanted our son baptized.  It has been a truly great experience, and I genuinely have enjoyed my Sundays (complete with a nice, boozy post-church brunch) much more than before.  While I do indeed accept the historic and philosophical claims of Christianity as true (at least the major ones, anyway, like the Resurrection), I indeed think that the experience of belonging to and attending a church of your preference is positive for the great majority of people.  I would argue that the Religious Nones I know personally who do not attend a church have pretty much tried to fill that void with other exercises in trying to find a communal belonging and/or "spiritual" meaning that have not been quite as effective.

Congrats on the kid!

Thank you!  It's as awesome in a cliche way as they say, haha.

[Arson Plus]

I tried doing my version of this for the reasons others have laid out here - finding a sense of meaning and community and tbqh, I found the experience to not be fulfilling. This might speak to my personal sense of insecurity, but it just felt very weird to be around people who really believed while I was there for different reasons. I have sympathy for the functional argument for religion, but I'm not sure how well it works on a personal level if you don't actually believe.

(As a tangent, I wish there were more articles in this genre from people with a non-Christian background. I've gotten the suggestion of going to church from some people irl, but that strikes me as trading in one form of alienation for another.)

Something I was thinking recently was how the lack of a collective Hindu community/lack of congregationalism in contrast to the communities formed by adherents of Abrahamic faiths affects the faith of second gen Indians in the diaspora who come from Hindu families. If you are a young person belonging to a family who identifies as being Hindu in the United States, often you aren't that religious and since there is no Hindu community you visit the temple a few times a year a most and it feels tailored to our parents and once people get older you become more atheistic or agnostic and only identify as Hindu on a cultural basis.

[Battista Minola 1616]

As an addendum to my previous post, I remember talking about the aforementioned Anglican experience with Nathan and other people, and one conclusion we came to is that post-church brunch - or coffee and cookies or however you call it - is normal at Catholic churches in some parts of the USA but uncommon at Catholic churches (unlike Protestant ones) in other parts of the USA and just as uncommon at Catholic churches (i.e. 99% of them) here. That sort of thing seems pretty consequential to the concept of bonding through showing up to church and it's just not part of my life.

[RINO Tom]

^ Just FTR for my post, our post-church brunch is just my wife and I bringing the 6-month old to brunch, haha.  Somewhat of a reward for getting our act together enough to make it to church.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

As an addendum to my previous post, I remember talking about the aforementioned Anglican experience with Nathan and other people, and one conclusion we came to is that post-church brunch - or coffee and cookies or however you call it - is normal at Catholic churches in some parts of the USA but uncommon at Catholic churches (unlike Protestant ones) in other parts of the USA and just as uncommon at Catholic churches (i.e. 99% of them) here. That sort of thing seems pretty consequential to the concept of bonding through showing up to church and it's just not part of my life.

This isn't just a mainline-vs.-Catholic distinction either, although it is common in Anglicanism (and one of the best things about that tradition on a sociological level). For every BRTD type who's actively enthusiastic about relentlessly unstructured and informal Evangelical "corporate worship," there's someone who thinks it's kind of lackluster but loves her local Baptist or conservative Methodist or nondenominational church's social outings, child/elder care options, and on-site cafe.

[Associate Justice PiT]

As an addendum to my previous post, I remember talking about the aforementioned Anglican experience with Nathan and other people, and one conclusion we came to is that post-church brunch - or coffee and cookies or however you call it - is normal at Catholic churches in some parts of the USA but uncommon at Catholic churches (unlike Protestant ones) in other parts of the USA and just as uncommon at Catholic churches (i.e. 99% of them) here. That sort of thing seems pretty consequential to the concept of bonding through showing up to church and it's just not part of my life.

This isn't just a mainline-vs.-Catholic distinction either, although it is common in Anglicanism (and one of the best things about that tradition on a sociological level). For every BRTD type who's actively enthusiastic about relentlessly unstructured and informal Evangelical "corproate worship," there's someone who thinks it's kind of lackluster but loves her local Baptist or conservative Methodist or nondemoninational church's social outings, child/elder care options, and on-site cafe.

     Like it or not, we are social creatures. My parish has a catechumen who is nearing reception into the Church now and I recall that when he first became a catechumen he cited me in a big influence in convincing him to become Orthodox. All I had done though was chat with him at our fellowship meals and maybe answer one or two questions. Being open and friendly can't be the only factor to bringing people in and retaining them, but it definitely helps!

[pikachu]

I tried doing my version of this for the reasons others have laid out here - finding a sense of meaning and community and tbqh, I found the experience to not be fulfilling. This might speak to my personal sense of insecurity, but it just felt very weird to be around people who really believed while I was there for different reasons. I have sympathy for the functional argument for religion, but I'm not sure how well it works on a personal level if you don't actually believe.

(As a tangent, I wish there were more articles in this genre from people with a non-Christian background. I've gotten the suggestion of going to church from some people irl, but that strikes me as trading in one form of alienation for another.)

Something I was thinking recently was how the lack of a collective Hindu community/lack of congregationalism in contrast to the communities formed by adherents of Abrahamic faiths affects the faith of second gen Indians in the diaspora who come from Hindu families. If you are a young person belonging to a family who identifies as being Hindu in the United States, often you aren't that religious and since there is no Hindu community you visit the temple a few times a year a most and it feels tailored to our parents and once people get older you become more atheistic or agnostic and only identify as Hindu on a cultural basis.

Yeah, the lack of congregationalism leads to a very different dynamic. That being said, as I've gotten older, I have been surprised by how many Indian Hindus I know fall more into the 'lapsed' category than agnosticism/atheism. While there's selection bias in who I know, I am surprised by the number of people who'll visit a temple every few months or stick with the dietary restriction they grew up with. I do wonder how Hinduism changes as the second generation of Indians rapidly comes of age - from a non-religious perspective, being Indian now feels different from what it was only 10-15 years ago.

[LabourJersey]

As an addendum to my previous post, I remember talking about the aforementioned Anglican experience with Nathan and other people, and one conclusion we came to is that post-church brunch - or coffee and cookies or however you call it - is normal at Catholic churches in some parts of the USA but uncommon at Catholic churches (unlike Protestant ones) in other parts of the USA and just as uncommon at Catholic churches (i.e. 99% of them) here. That sort of thing seems pretty consequential to the concept of bonding through showing up to church and it's just not part of my life.

This isn't just a mainline-vs.-Catholic distinction either, although it is common in Anglicanism (and one of the best things about that tradition on a sociological level). For every BRTD type who's actively enthusiastic about relentlessly unstructured and informal Evangelical "corporate worship," there's someone who thinks it's kind of lackluster but loves her local Baptist or conservative Methodist or nondenominational church's social outings, child/elder care options, and on-site cafe.

One of the most valuable aspects of my parish church is the post-service coffee. The author even touches on it with her church. there's a lot to be set in making community when everyone sticks around to chat and catch up with one another before going out and on with their day.